Milwaukee vs BULLS Mon Feb 23rd at 7PM on CSN

Choisauce · Feb 23, 2015

The Hawk said:
I just read a pretty good article in the paper today about Rose with Thibs basically calling him out to be their catalyst. I kind of said a similar thing a couple of hours ago on a post here about what I feel is a lack of leadership in the back court. Then I read about Rose missing a practice before the Pistons game.

I think that there is a big change going on with the Bulls and a lot of it has to do with Rose's failure to lead. When he was gone, the Bulls had guys step up and lead then he came back and now everyone seems to be looking around their shoulders to find leadership. Frankly I do not know if Rose has it in him to lead. Maybe the other guys around him like Noah, Gibson, and Butler don't want to sort of step on his toes? But someone has to do it. Thibs cannot do it as a coach. It has to be taken over by a player.

All that I know is this, if Rose cannot get his head out of his ass and lead through the remainder of this season, then the Bulls have a huge decision to make as far as I am concerned and that is whether they keep Rose or not. It would be a mega crater in Chicago if they start trade talks regarding him but what is their alternative? I do not care if they fire Thibs, Fire Gar/Pax or whoever that they bring in, but they need a star who can lead a team. The logical guy to do it is the team's best player but Rose right now isn't even their best player is he?

The United Center struck me by its silence in the Suns game. It was like a morgue in the building. It was literally like the congregation was waiting for the corpse to hopefully rise out of his coffin a play basketball. It never used to be that way. Not in my memory. Even when they didn't have Rose.

That practice was the first one he missed that wasn't medically related, so i'll cut him some slack there, especially since he acknowledged the fuck up.

Yes - this current bulls team will only go as far as Rose can take them AND he is the type of rare superstar to go get you a bucket in the 4th quarter running an ISO play and he's deadly in transition. We just need more consistency, give the man some time, he'll come around soon. You could make the case for Jimmy Butler, but Rose has more experience being the closer.....for now.

Bill Simmons has a great article on grantland about the decline of homecourt advantage. Good read if you like his stuff and/or basketball fan.

BTW - who would take D Rose at this point for what the Bulls FO would perceives as return in value. You think another team is gonna take on a high risk injury prone player with max contract?

Axl Rose · Feb 23, 2015

Jimmy Butler's thumb is still hurt aswell

psssst this team will never be healthy

clonetrooper264 · Feb 23, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
Jimmy Butler's thumb is still hurt aswell

psssst this team will never be healthy

It hasn't really affected his play though...he's been wearing that hand brace thing for like the whole season.

Diddy1122 · Feb 23, 2015

The Hawk said:
Another interesting article in the papers today was surrounding Gibson playing with a torn tendon in the hand and his disenchantment with how some of the press is talking about him POUTING and not playing very well because of it and having Gasol playing instead of him.

Now, I am admittedly a huge Gibson and Noah fan so take out of it what you will, but the notion of Gibson and Noah not working their asses off while in the game is crap as far as I am concerned. I will also say that I believe that it pisses them off when they see some of their fellow teammates what I will categorize as dogging it on defense. And yeah, I say it is Gasol and Rose who are the primary culprits. Some of you guys will disagree with me and that is fine.

But I do see two different player mind sets on this team. I see a group comprised of Noah, Gibson, Butler, Mirotic, Snell, and Brooks who do go balls out all of the time and I see another group of Gasol, Rose, Dunleavy, and Hinrich who either take plays off or cannot physically make a difference on defense or hustle plays.

Seriously man, are you watching the games with your eyes closed? Gasol and Rose aren't "dogging" it on defense, they just aren't particularly strong one on one defenders. We've all know that for years. Rose makes up for it with his athleticism in being able to recover quickly. Gasol uses his length to effect shots because his lateral quickness is not great. That hardly qualifies as "dogging it".

Two different sets of players?? :lmao: Have you even watched Brooks "play" defense? He's the WORST one on one defender on the team! Wow. Just WoW. Dunleavy is the BEST team defender we have. It was not a coincidence that this team struggled badly on that end when he was out. Every single member of the Bulls have had trouble maintaining intensity for 48 minutes. Every single player on the team has admitted to such.

And you want to talk about Gibson working his ass off every game, watch the games more closely. Now I love Gibson but he has been complaining so damn much over foul calls this season that it HAS effected his game & the team's. I've seen countless times where he's whining to the ref & not getting back on D causing mismatches which typically end up in a basket. Does that qualify as "dogging it" in your eyes?

Diddy1122 · Feb 23, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
It hasn't really affected his play though...he's been wearing that hand brace thing for like the whole season.

It rarely effects your game that much when it's on your non-shooting hand. Speaking from experience here. As long as you can tolerate the pain when you tweak it every once and awhile, you can easily play through it the whole year without a drop off in overall play.

The Hawk · Feb 23, 2015

Choisauce said:
That practice was the first one he missed that wasn't medically related, so i'll cut him some slack there, especially since he acknowledged the fuck up.

Yes - this current bulls team will only go as far as Rose can take them AND he is the type of rare superstar to go get you a bucket in the 4th quarter running an ISO play and he's deadly in transition. We just need more consistency, give the man some time, he'll come around soon. You could make the case for Jimmy Butler, but Rose has more experience being the closer.....for now.

Bill Simmons has a great article on grantland about the decline of homecourt advantage. Good read if you like his stuff and/or basketball fan.

BTW - who would take D Rose at this point for what the Bulls FO would perceives as return in value. You think another team is gonna take on a high risk injury prone player with max contract?

I have no idea what Rose is worth trade wise. All I am saying is that if this team doesn't improve and make a run into the play-offs with him on the floor, then there should be a total exhaustive examination of his worth going forward. I am also not saying all of the is his fault. Not at all. I think that the problem of this years team is on Gar/Pax and maybe Reinsorf if it were he who prevented them from improving this team more.

They might also not get total value in any trade. I don;t know about that either. All that I know is that they need to make a decision if ROSE is the answer to winning championships in Chicago. I don't know if he is. All that I know is that right now he doesn't appear to be the leader of this team.

The Hawk · Feb 23, 2015

Diddy1122 said:
Seriously man, are you watching the games with your eyes closed? Gasol and Rose aren't "dogging" it on defense, they just aren't particularly strong one on one defenders. We've all know that for years. Rose makes up for it with his athleticism in being able to recover quickly. Gasol uses his length to effect shots because his lateral quickness is not great. That hardly qualifies as "dogging it".

No sir. I am not watching games with my eyes closed. And I think that both of those guys do take plays off on defense. There is NO REASON for taking these plays off. There is NO REASON why a guy as athletic as Rose shouldn't be a better defender which he is not. That is a fucking attitude not anything else. As for Gasol, he is a terrible defender. The only thing that bails him off is when a guy lands at his feet and has to try and put a shot up over him. He is the same shitty defender that Boozer was only taller. He sucks as a defender and he and Rose defensively is the reason why teams blow by the perimeter defense and get to the rim so easily. He doesn't move and the same crap that we watched a lot in the Boozer years is the same with Gasol. They need to play him off of the bench and start Gibson if they are going to have any chance at a run in the play-offs.

Two different sets of players?? :lmao: Have you even watched Brooks "play" defense? He's the WORST one on one defender on the team! Wow. Just WoW. Dunleavy is the BEST team defender we have. It was not a coincidence that this team struggled badly on that end when he was out. Every single member of the Bulls have had trouble maintaining intensity for 48 minutes. Every single player on the team has admitted to such.

OMG. I am talking first of all about ENERGY. And Brooks TRIES on defense despite his being a smurf out there. And NO, the worst man on man defender is Gasol Absolutely the worse. He couldn't guard a garbage can without giving the can at least 7 points just on foot speed. And Dunleavy is a bad team defender. The good team defenders are Noah, Gibson, Butler, Hinrich, and noone else

And you want to talk about Gibson working his ass off every game, watch the games more closely. Now I love Gibson but he has been complaining so damn much over foul calls this season that it HAS effected his game & the team's. I've seen countless times where he's whining to the ref & not getting back on D causing mismatches which typically end up in a basket. Does that qualify as "dogging it" in your eyes?

ANd yeah, I want to talk about Gibson working his ass off which he does every damn minute he is on the court. And he gets fucking hammered on a bad hand and doesn't get any calls. But especially do not go there about anyone not getting back on defense because Gasol is a slug when it comes to that bad call or not. If Gibson had Gasol's talent, he'd be an all-star. If Gasol had Gibson's drive. he'd be a HOFer.

Scoot26 · Feb 23, 2015

so many turnovers.

Bear06 · Feb 23, 2015

The Hawk said:
ANd yeah, I want to talk about Gibson working his ass off which he does every damn minute he is on the court. And he gets fucking hammered on a bad hand and doesn't get any calls. But especially do not go there about anyone not getting back on defense because Gasol is a slug when it comes to that bad call or not. If Gibson had Gasol's talent, he'd be an all-star. If Gasol had Gibson's drive. he'd be a HOFer.

Gasol is a Hall of Famer when his career is all said and done.

Bear06 · Feb 23, 2015

Tony is heating up.

Scoot26 · Feb 23, 2015

Both teams shooting / playing terrible in the first half....Bulls just using their talent in this game and vastly out rebounding Milwaukee to grab a large lead.

Diddy1122 · Feb 23, 2015

The Hawk said:
There is NO REASON for taking these plays off.

The Hawk said:
OMG. I am talking first of all about ENERGY.

See below.. again

Diddy1122 said:
Every single member of the Bulls have had trouble maintaining intensity for 48 minutes. Every single player on the team has admitted to such.

You'd rather blame everything on Rose or Gasol then face the actual truth. I addressed it. You dismissed. You want further evidence? Listen to Noah before this very game talk about how the team plays down to their opponents A LOT.

The Hawk said:
If Gibson had Gasol's talent, he'd be an all-star. If Gasol had Gibson's drive. he'd be a HOFer.

Gasol is one of the best European players in NBA history. I think he's got a pretty decent chance of being a HOFer without "Gibson's drive". He must have been coasting when he helped the Lakers win back-to-back Championships.

The Hawk said:
They need to play him off of the bench and start Gibson if they are going to have any chance at a run in the play-offs.

Bring an All-Star starter and the better player off the bench... Ok now I know you aren't watching games. I can't continue with this after reading that. I'm out. *drops mic

Diddy1122 · Feb 23, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Both teams shooting / playing terrible in the first half....Bulls just using their talent in this game and vastly out rebounding Milwaukee to grab a large lead.

They are playing with energy. Sure it's been frenetic at times but the effort and energy is there, especially on the glass. That's what the team's desperately needed against lesser talented teams. As long as the energy is up, we can easily put teams like this away even with off shooting nights.

Naptastic · Feb 23, 2015

So, is tony good now? I mean, not like he's having a good streak, but actually a reliable scorer?

Scoot26 · Feb 23, 2015

Diddy1122 said:
They are playing with energy. Sure it's been frenetic at times but the effort and energy is there, especially on the glass. That's what the team's desperately needed against lesser talented teams. As long as the energy is up, we can easily put teams like this away even with off shooting nights.

Yes, but I attribute most of their big lead to the fact Milwaukee is shooting 34%... They have plenty of open shots, they're just not hitting for the most part.

A lot of these games against bad teams, they are shooting 50%+ all game.

Scoot26 · Feb 23, 2015

Naptastic said:
So, is tony good now? I mean, not like he's having a good streak, but actually a reliable scorer?

Wasn't as good during the 100% healthy two game stretch...now that Taj and Kirk are out, he's back.

Bear Pride · Feb 23, 2015

How about Niko's 10 rebounds in the 1st half? :dunno:

Bear Pride · Feb 23, 2015

Halftime stats so far ........

Chicago Bulls
STARTERS	MIN	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
Pau Gasol, PF	17	4-7	0-1	0-0	1	4	5	1	0	1	0	0	+3	8
Mike Dunleavy, SF	12	1-2	0-1	0-0	0	2	2	2	1	0	0	1	+6	2
Joakim Noah, C	15	0-3	0-0	0-0	5	3	8	2	0	0	2	1	+11	0
Derrick Rose, PG	17	1-8	1-5	5-6	2	2	4	6	0	0	2	2	+3	8
Jimmy Butler, SG	19	2-6	0-0	0-0	1	5	6	1	0	1	2	2	+10	4
BENCH	MIN	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
Nikola Mirotic, PF	16	2-5	1-3	1-2	2	8	10	1	1	0	2	1	+16	6
Tony Snell, SF	17	7-10	4-5	0-0	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	+14	18
Aaron Brooks, PG	7	1-5	0-2	0-0	0	1	1	1	0	0	0	1	+12	2
Cameron Bairstow, PF	Has not entered game
Doug McDermott, SF	Has not entered game
Nazr Mohammed, C	Has not entered game
E'Twaun Moore, SG	Has not entered game

Diddy1122 · Feb 23, 2015

Bear Pride said:
Halftime stats so far ........

Chicago Bulls
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Pau Gasol, PF 17 4-7 0-1 0-0 1 4 5 1 0 1 0 0 +3 8
Mike Dunleavy, SF 12 1-2 0-1 0-0 0 2 2 2 1 0 0 1 +6 2
Joakim Noah, C 15 0-3 0-0 0-0 5 3 8 2 0 0 2 1 +11 0
Derrick Rose, PG 17 1-8 1-5 5-6 2 2 4 6 0 0 2 2 +3 8
Jimmy Butler, SG 19 2-6 0-0 0-0 1 5 6 1 0 1 2 2 +10 4
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Nikola Mirotic, PF 16 2-5 1-3 1-2 2 8 10 1 1 0 2 1 +16 6
Tony Snell, SF 17 7-10 4-5 0-0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 +14 18
Aaron Brooks, PG 7 1-5 0-2 0-0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 +12 2
Cameron Bairstow, PF Has not entered game
Doug McDermott, SF Has not entered game
Nazr Mohammed, C Has not entered game
E'Twaun Moore, SG Has not entered game

6 assists for Rose? What a selfish bastard! He should have at least 15 by now. :smug2:

I love the rebounding numbers. It's speaking to the team's energy and effort out there.

RoseMVP1 · Feb 23, 2015

Been at work and I checked the box score after I got off...happy to see that Snell went off. He's really come on over the last month.

Milwaukee vs BULLS Mon Feb 23rd at 7PM on CSN

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