Bears Defensive Line-up (pre-draft)

dabears70 · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
The original goal was to play Fuller at the nickel, the injury, and his play, helped land him in Peanut's spot. :yep:

No i'm pretty sure that Fuller and Peanut were gonna play the corner spots and Jennings was gonna play the nickle spot.

Sculpt · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
This is why I think Waynes is a legit pick for us. He's 6'2 and had 19 reps on the bench. He's very good as a press/man CB too, which Fangio likes as well. I've said this before, Fuller and Waynes gives Fangio two 1st round, young CB's to design his defense around moving forward.

Then Jennings and Ball duke it out at the nickel while Fangio works his magic with the front 7. You can still draft a young OLB to develop like Lorenzo Mauldin in the 3rd or 4th even.

Indeed, I think CB Waynes would fill the biggest need on the team. I don't know much about him though.

Sculpt · Mar 29, 2015

remydat said:
Your passing down situation looks weird right now because you are keeping the same number in the front 7 and subbing out a Free Safety for a Nickel Back. The reality is if it really is a passing down then you go with 5 guys in the secondary and only 6 guys on the front. So you should be replacing a LB or DL for the Nickel Back.

Furthermore, it is likely that there will be more 4-3 looks on obvious passing downs with McPhee and Houston moving to DT and Young and Allen being the DEs. You then have only 2 LBs with maybe one of them (perhaps Shea) being someone that could blitz if necessary.

So you mean, on passing downs, we might replace an ILB with a NB? Or you mean replacing an OLB?

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

Sculpt said:
Indeed, I think CB Waynes would fill the biggest need on the team. I don't know much about him though.


School:	Michigan State
Class:	Junior
Height:	6-0
Weight:	186
Draft Stock:	Top 15; No. 1 CB

Pros

Combination of length and speed (4.31) is ideal; never gets beat over the top
True "island" cornerback; played almost exclusively quarters coverage at MSU oftentimes with zero safety help. Boundary corner
Incredibly smart and instinctive; understands coverages and opposing route patterns
Great ball skills and downfield awareness; gets his head around in time to make a play
Does an excellent job pinning receivers along sideline with no room for QB to throw
Solid in run support; able to stack and shed the stalk. Good tackler
Excellent recovery; long arms and closing speed to break up passes from a step behind
Quiet feet; doesn't get overaggressive, not easily sucked in by play action or pump fakes
Competitor, mentally and physically tough; can wear down opposing receivers
Reliable; hasn't missed a start in two years

Cons

Upright back pedal makes it hard for him to plant and drive; gives up a lot underneath
Needs to work on sinking his hips
Overly handsy, does a lot of grabbing at top of routes; will draw penalties
Broke fibula and ankle in H.S; ligament damage
Played strictly boundary at M.S.U; haven't seen much of him in nickel. Some teams might not see him as ideal schematic fit

Overall

No cornerback in college football was left on an island more over the past two years than Trae Waynes; and the results were outstanding, only two touchdowns allowed.
Playing the boundary corner in Michigan State's exclusively quarters and cover three defense (something NFL teams will love) Waynes went one-on-one with team's top receivers and used his length, speed and awareness to shut them down. Waynes gets the play off to a great start by pinning his man along the sideline, then when it comes to turning and running few can run by him at 4.31 and his length makes that task even tougher. He's physically and mentally tough, making it a 60 minute dogfight.
There's nothing from a talent perspective where Waynes is lacking. Sinking his hips and getting lower in his back pedal are both rather easily correctable things, and if he could cut down on some unnecessary hand fighting he'd be in great shape.
Trae Waynes is the real deal; he's the best cornerback in this class and there's no reason to believe he won't be an upper echelon cornerback in the NFL.

Stats

Career Statistics
Year	Tackles	INTs	Passes Defended
14	46	3	8
13	50	3	5
12	5	0	0

[video=youtube;wArJCu5_xbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArJCu5_xbc[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4lCJvAoBfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZe3lMVgWw

remydat · Mar 29, 2015

Sculpt said:
So you mean, on passing downs, we might replace an ILB with a NB? Or you mean replacing an OLB?

Depends. You could replace an ILB or an OLB to give the O different looks. Point being on obvious passing downs you absolutely want at least 5 DBs.

RacerX · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
I just don't think Fox, a veteran defensive head coach who has been successful, and Fangio, one of the best defensive minds at DC, will take 2-3 years to turn the defense around. :dunno:

I agree that Fox and Fangio can and will get the most out of our D personnel, but they are not miracle workers.

Ask yourself this: how many of our 2014 starters would start on the Seahawks? Any?

Of our 2014 starters. we need to replace 9 of them (excepting Fuller and Young). And we desperately need depth behind them. Can't do it in 1 year, which is why 2-3 years isn't bullshit.

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

RacerX said:
I agree that Fox and Fangio can and will get the most out of our D personnel, but they are not miracle workers.

Ask yourself this: how many of our 2014 starters would start on the Seahawks? Any?

Of our 2014 starters. we need to replace 9 of them (excepting Fuller and Young). And we desperately need depth behind them. Can't do it in 1 year, which is why 2-3 years isn't bullshit.

I don't think anyone is saying we'll become the Seahawks defense right away, but to answer your question:

- Ratliff was a pretty successful starter at NT for years
- McDonald was a starting 5 tech for a pretty damn good 49er's defense
- McPhee, although he didn't start for the Ravens, is a starter quality OLB, even according to the Ravens
- Allen and Houston were pretty good players before Tucker got a hold of them
- Jennings was an All Pro not to long ago
- Rolle started for a pretty good Giants defense that won a couple SB's not too long ago
- Foster averaged 93 T's as a starter before Lovie misused him
- Bostic could thrive as a Mike ILB in Fangio's defense
- Fuller is a star waiting to happen in Fangio's defense
- Beasley, Waynes, McKinney, or several other draft picks at #7, or even our 2nd, could come in and start right away

There's 10 positive things right away, not too mention the biggest improvement by subtraction.....TUCKER!!!

strobiwan · Mar 29, 2015

I think passing on Shelton, would be a mistake that would haunt us for years.
he should anchor a 3-4 nose for years, kinda like Wilfork did with the pats.

Sculpt · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
School: Michigan State
Class: Junior
Height: 6-0
Weight: 186
Draft Stock: Top 15; No. 1 CB

Pros

Combination of length and speed (4.31) is ideal; never gets beat over the top

True "island" cornerback; played almost exclusively quarters coverage at MSU oftentimes with zero safety help. Boundary corner

Incredibly smart and instinctive; understands coverages and opposing route patterns

Great ball skills and downfield awareness; gets his head around in time to make a play

Does an excellent job pinning receivers along sideline with no room for QB to throw

Solid in run support; able to stack and shed the stalk. Good tackler

Excellent recovery; long arms and closing speed to break up passes from a step behind

Quiet feet; doesn't get overaggressive, not easily sucked in by play action or pump fakes

Competitor, mentally and physically tough; can wear down opposing receivers

Reliable; hasn't missed a start in two years

Cons

Upright back pedal makes it hard for him to plant and drive; gives up a lot underneath

Needs to work on sinking his hips

Overly handsy, does a lot of grabbing at top of routes; will draw penalties

Broke fibula and ankle in H.S; ligament damage

Played strictly boundary at M.S.U; haven't seen much of him in nickel. Some teams might not see him as ideal schematic fit

Overall

No cornerback in college football was left on an island more over the past two years than Trae Waynes; and the results were outstanding, only two touchdowns allowed.
Playing the boundary corner in Michigan State's exclusively quarters and cover three defense (something NFL teams will love) Waynes went one-on-one with team's top receivers and used his length, speed and awareness to shut them down. Waynes gets the play off to a great start by pinning his man along the sideline, then when it comes to turning and running few can run by him at 4.31 and his length makes that task even tougher. He's physically and mentally tough, making it a 60 minute dogfight.
There's nothing from a talent perspective where Waynes is lacking. Sinking his hips and getting lower in his back pedal are both rather easily correctable things, and if he could cut down on some unnecessary hand fighting he'd be in great shape.
Trae Waynes is the real deal; he's the best cornerback in this class and there's no reason to believe he won't be an upper echelon cornerback in the NFL.

Stats

Career Statistics
Year Tackles INTs Passes Defended
14 46 3 8
13 50 3 5
12 5 0 0

[video=youtube;wArJCu5_xbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArJCu5_xbc[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4lCJvAoBfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZe3lMVgWw

His stats aren't eye popping, but based on this profile, he sounds elite. Wonder why he isn't higher on most mocks. Would certainly be an ace pick for the Bears -- tops both BPA and team need.

AussieBear · Mar 30, 2015

Sculpt said:
His stats aren't eye popping, but based on this profile, he sounds elite. Wonder why he isn't higher on most mocks. Would certainly be an ace pick for the Bears -- tops both BPA and team need.

im high on him, hes actually who i want in the first, id be thrilled if they could trade down a few slots, pick up an extra pick and still get him but i doubt he drops further than 10-15.

Ive seen one mock with Waynes @7 to chicago, but overall i dont know why he's not getting more love from the media. Maybe it has to do with his teammate Darqueze Dennard who went 24 to cincy last year and really didnt do much his rookie year. However, Waynes is easily the better CB of the two IMO so who knows. Maybe all these draft experts who gave Justin Gilbert so much love last year, have no faith in naming a CB top 10 this year. Which means he will be a star.. so take him.

AussieBear · Mar 30, 2015

i like waynes on tape, but when looking at numbers i found where ppl may be down on him. also, like others have said he grabs a lot, can give too much space and his hips being tight is another issue

aside from his weight being a little on the low side, here are some of the following knocks in terms of measurables:

Arm: 31 inches (T-15th among 32 Combine CBs)
Hand: 8 1/4 inches (31st among 32 Combine CBs)
Broad jump: 10 feet, 2 inches (T-16th among 30 Combine CBs tested)
Three-cone drill: 7.06 seconds (19th among 26 Combine CBs tested)
Short shuttle: 4.39 seconds (25th among 27 Combine CBs tested)

where he did shine:

40-yard dash: 4.31 seconds (1st among 29 Combine CBs tested)
Bench press: 19 repetitions (T-4th among 22 Combine CBs tested)
Vertical jump: 38 inches (6th among 29 Combine CBs tested)

AussieBear · Mar 30, 2015

after doing further evaluations of waynes, im starting to see some serious flaws. good thing i dont do this for a living.

however if he could do this on a consistent basis - hes going to be all pro material. he doesnt bite on the double move, mirrors his receiver, stays on top, locates the ball and then turns back to it.

[video]http://zippy.gfycat.com/ImprobableGlitteringFoxterrier.webm[/video]

TheDane · Mar 30, 2015

Bear Pride said:
- Beasley, Waynes, McKinney, or several other draft picks at #7 could come in and start right away

Are you seriously suggesting that Benardrick McKinney is an option for us at #7? :smh:

TheDane · Mar 30, 2015

Sculpt said:
His stats aren't eye popping, but based on this profile, he sounds elite. Wonder why he isn't higher on most mocks. Would certainly be an ace pick for the Bears -- tops both BPA and team need.

Just because he might be the best CB this year, doesn't mean that he's necessarily good value in the top 10. I don't believe he represents good value at #7. This CB-class is generally not very good. I have a couple of personal favorites here and there, but overall it's average at best.

Sculpt · Mar 30, 2015

AussieBear said:
i like waynes on tape, but when looking at numbers i found where ppl may be down on him. also, like others have said he grabs a lot, can give too much space and his hips being tight is another issue

aside from his weight being a little on the low side, here are some of the following knocks in terms of measurables:

Arm: 31 inches (T-15th among 32 Combine CBs)
Hand: 8 1/4 inches (31st among 32 Combine CBs)
Broad jump: 10 feet, 2 inches (T-16th among 30 Combine CBs tested)
Three-cone drill: 7.06 seconds (19th among 26 Combine CBs tested)
Short shuttle: 4.39 seconds (25th among 27 Combine CBs tested)

where he did shine:

40-yard dash: 4.31 seconds (1st among 29 Combine CBs tested)
Bench press: 19 repetitions (T-4th among 22 Combine CBs tested)
Vertical jump: 38 inches (6th among 29 Combine CBs tested)

He certainly hit on the best three.

ZenBear34 · Mar 30, 2015

you don't have a free safety in passing situations.

it will look more like this:

base:
RDT: McDonald
NT: Ratliff
LDT: Jenkins

ROLB: McPhee
RILB: Bostic/Jones
LILB: Foster
LOLB: Houston

CB: Fuller
CB: Jennings

FS: Rolle
SS: Mundy

nickel 4-2

RE: McPhee
DT: Ratliff
DT: McDonald
LE: Houston

RILB: Jones
LILB: Foster(or possibly subbed with a better coverage backer)

CB: Fuller
CB: Jennings
NB: Hurst

FS: Rolle
SS: Mundy

3-3-3 Nickel

DT: McDonald
DT: Ratliff
LE: Houston

ROLB: McPhee
RILB: Jones/Bostic
LILB: Foster

CB: Fuller
CB: Jennings

S: Mundy
S: Rolle
S: Vereen

so most likely you'll see allen, young, bass or whoever coming in as down lineman/ rush backers in certain situations.

the whole basis of fangio's defense is the initial line-ups, and he uses a ton of different fronts. you'll see 2 down lineman and 4 rushers standing up. he likes to use a "big" formation with 3 safeties especially against 2 tight end alignments.

fangio is not a blitz heavy coordinator. more often then not he sends 4 rushers, but there's usually 5 or 6 guys who are potentially going to rush so offenses never know who's coming in a given situation.

Evobear · Mar 30, 2015

Watching Fuller get repeatedly destroyed on corner fade passes, and considering the sheer passing power in the North. I have zero problems with Waynes @7. Have to have talent at the corners.

Bear Pride · Mar 30, 2015

TheDane said:
Are you seriously suggesting that Benardrick McKinney is an option for us at #7? :smh:

Relax dude, I like him with our 2nd, and he could be a starter like I was saying.

Bear Pride · Mar 30, 2015

TheDane said:
Just because he might be the best CB this year, doesn't mean that he's necessarily good value in the top 10. I don't believe he represents good value at #7. This CB-class is generally not very good. I have a couple of personal favorites here and there, but overall it's average at best.

Slow your roll, dude, we're discussing options here, you have any suggestions, or are you just being a dick? I've got a lot of favorites at #7 too, and none of us know what Pace is thinking. :dunno:

TheDane · Mar 30, 2015

Bear Pride said:
Slow your roll, dude, we're discussing options here, you have any suggestions, or are you just being a dick? I've got a lot of favorites at #7 too, and none of us know what Pace is thinking. :dunno:

Yea, you're discussing options, and I came with my opinion on one of the ones you were talking about. How is that being a dick?

Also, McKinney could definitely be an option in the 2nd, but I can't quite figure out if I'd like that pick or not.

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