My final verdict on Shane Ray

Bort · Apr 20, 2015

theOHIOSTATE! said:
Very stiff and somewhat limited athletically compared to the other elite edge guys in the draft. Doesn't have much room for growth physically in my opinion. Smallish lower body/posterior and overbuilt upper body. Violent strong hands with good functional upper body power to disengage. Good speed, can beat elite guys around the edge at times but nowhere close to Vic in this dept/. Plays like an alpha with bad intentions. Not 100 percent engaged on running plays and or limited motor at times in pursuit.
Plays like a bully and effectively bullies outmatched OLman, but doesn't really show the ability to do that against NFL type talent consistently with his size/lower body power limitations.

Video of Ray versus Humphries 1 on 1 most of the snaps. He pads sack stats in what was effectively garbage time, but outside maybe 4-5 snaps he is dominated somewhat by a very young, still developing NFL talent; he does have his moments though:

https://youtu.be/JRrM08N038c

Come on. Humphries is one of the best OTs in the country and will be a first round draft pick 10 days from now. Watch what Humphries did to Bud Dupree in the Kentucky game.

And you're citing a game where Ray beat Humphries cleanly for 2 sacks including a sack-fumble that was returned for a touchdown as a negative? Give me a break. And don't tell me it was garbage time both sacks were early in the 3rd quarter.

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

MrOuija said:
You're sure putting alot of qualifiers on who is and who isn't decent competition. Seems pretty arbitrary. A play against IU doesn't matter. A play against Georgia matters, but only in 2014, and only if you realize its a sack and not a 25 yd TD fumble recovery. A good play is a good play period, NFL players come from all over.

it has to do with quality of competition, Georgia's offensive line was better this year than it was in 2013. go look at ray's numbers this past year and youll notice a huge dropoff against the top completion O lines. I never said he wont be a good player, just saying that is cause for concern IMO :shrug:

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

Bort said:
Come on. Humphries is one of the best OTs in the country and will be a first round draft pick 10 days from now. Watch what Humphries did to Bud Dupree in the Kentucky game.

And you're citing a game where Ray beat Humphries cleanly for 2 sacks including a sack-fumble that was returned for a touchdown as a negative? Give me a break. And don't tell me it was garbage time both sacks were early in the 3rd quarter.

and early in the 3rd quarter florida was already down 24- 0 I believe and having to pass the football to try and get back in the game. florida had a horrendous passing attack last year and a QB with no pocket awareness is the point I believe he was trying to make about those sacks

BearsFan51 · Apr 20, 2015

theOHIOSTATE! said:
Very stiff and somewhat limited athletically compared to the other elite edge guys in the draft. Doesn't have much room for growth physically in my opinion. Smallish lower body/posterior and overbuilt upper body. Violent strong hands with good functional upper body power to disengage. Good speed, can beat elite guys around the edge at times but nowhere close to Vic in this dept/. Plays like an alpha with bad intentions. Not 100 percent engaged on running plays and or limited motor at times in pursuit.
Plays like a bully and effectively bullies outmatched OLman, but doesn't really show the ability to do that against NFL type talent consistently with his size/lower body power limitations.

Video of Ray versus Humphries 1 on 1 most of the snaps. He pads sack stats in what was effectively garbage time, but outside maybe 4-5 snaps he is dominated somewhat by a very young, still developing NFL talent; he does have his moments though:

https://youtu.be/JRrM08N038c

Garbage time? There is no garbage time on defense. There is pin you ears back and rush the QB because everyone knows that's what's coming but that's hardly garbage time. Ray racked up at least half a sack in all of his games but two, that's consistent production.

I get it, you don't like Ray, but don't make stuff up to suit your argument.

Smokey Robinson · Apr 20, 2015

Bort said:
Come on. Humphries is one of the best OTs in the country and will be a first round draft pick 10 days from now. Watch what Humphries did to Bud Dupree in the Kentucky game.

And you're citing a game where Ray beat Humphries cleanly for 2 sacks including a sack-fumble that was returned for a touchdown as a negative? Give me a break. And don't tell me it was garbage time both sacks were early in the 3rd quarter.

This. Of all the OTs headed to the draft this year Humphries is one of the few with the athletic ability to stay on the left side as a pro. Humphries has been underrated due to previous injury concerns but when he is out there he is a beast.

As far as Ray VS Humphries goes it was a battle all day long and Ray won the day. He beat Humphries a few times, more than just the sacks, and fought with a highly athletic NFL caliber OT. I know everyone wants to see these pass rushers win every snap but that isn't going to happen, especially against top flight competition like Humphries.

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

Smokey Robinson said:
This. Of all the OTs headed to the draft this year Humphries is one of the few with the athletic ability to stay on the left side as a pro. Humphries has been underrated due to previous injury concerns but when he is out there he is a beast.

As far as Ray VS Humphries goes it was a battle all day long and Ray won the day. He beat Humphries a few times, more than just the sacks, and fought with a highly athletic NFL caliber OT. I know everyone wants to see these pass rushers win every snap but that isn't going to happen, especially against top flight competition like Humphries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRrM08N038c

Humphries was winning all game till the game got out of hand and that allowed the defensive line for mizzou to just pin their ears back and go after it without any worry about the run game. still give ray some credit for making the plays, but it certainly put Humphries at a disadvantage at that point in the game, whereas up to that point he had taken care of ray very well

Bort · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
and early in the 3rd quarter florida was already down 24- 0 I believe and having to pass the football to try and get back in the game. florida had a horrendous passing attack last year and a QB with no pocket awareness is the point I believe he was trying to make about those sacks

Those weren't coverage sacks. Ray beat Humphries cleanly around the edge both times (and got held pretty badly on the first one). You can see for yourself:

and:

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

nowhere did I refer to them as coverage sacks. just simply ray KNEW they were passing which allowed him to pin his ears back without the threat of the run game. if you don't see that as an advantage to the pass rusher then we are done here lol

Smokey Robinson · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
nowhere did I refer to them as coverage sacks. just simply ray KNEW they were passing which allowed him to pin his ears back without the threat of the run game. if you don't see that as an advantage to the pass rusher then we are done here lol

It is a poor argument. By that logic Humphries knew they were passing so he was fully prepared.

The fact is the offensive lineman is always a step ahead of the defender as they know if they are going to run or throw where a defender has to guess/ read and react.

In obvious passing situations it is simply man VS man and Shane Ray was the man who won.

theOHIOSTATE! · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
nowhere did I refer to them as coverage sacks. just simply ray KNEW they were passing which allowed him to pin his ears back without the threat of the run game. if you don't see that as an advantage to the pass rusher then we are done here lol

EXACTLY, also, the first sack Driskel either couldn't or wouldn't simply step up into the pocket bc he saw 89 penetrating probably...

Ray beat DJ off the snap, but DJ actually did a half decent job of washing/riding him the long way; Driskel just stood there like the clueless scrub he is

If you watched that whole tape and think Ray got the best of Humphries, we really have nothing more to talk about here. He definitely had a couple/3 moments once the score got out of hand, and that's to his credit, but he was also dominated for long stretches of the game.

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

Smokey Robinson said:
It is a poor argument. By that logic Humphries knew they were passing so he was fully prepared. The fact is the offensive lineman is always a step ahead of the defender as they know if they are going to run or throw where a defender has to guess.

In obvious passing situations it is simply man VS man and Shane Ray was the man who won.

we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one my friend

why didn't ray make any plays in the game before it got to 28 - 0 though then? yes the offensive linemen always knows what the play is, but the advantage is the defensive player isn't supposed to know whether its run or pass before they even lineup. ray did, and he took advantage....kudos to him for that. like I said, he could end up being a very nice player...I just have concerns about his performance against top O line competition and I think that's a fair assessment when you break down his season game by game :shrug:

Wild_x_Card · Apr 20, 2015

theOHIOSTATE! said:
EXACTLY, also, the first sack Driskel either couldn't or wouldn't simply step up into the pocket bc he saw 89 penetrating probably...

Ray beat DJ off the snap, but DJ actually did a half decent job of washing/riding him the long way; Driskel just stood there like the clueless scrub he is

If you watched that whole tape and think Ray got the best of Humphries, we really have nothing more to talk about here. He definitely had a couple/3 moments once the score got out of hand, and that's to his credit, but he was also dominated for long stretches of the game.

This is the life of an edge rusher not named Derrick Thomas or Suggs in College.

Making 2-3 impact plays a game is a win for anybody on the edge.

theOHIOSTATE! · Apr 20, 2015

Wild_x_Card said:
This is the life of an edge rusher not named Derrick Thomas or Suggs in College.

Making 2-3 impact plays a game is a win for anybody on the edge.

Actually, no, no it isn't...Oh please, I actually remember Suggs at ASU, he was 9X as dominant in college than what we see here, get a grip.

Also, doing it once the score is out of hand has to be considered.

I am not saying he got pwned by DJ, but I am saying he got stoned for a large portion of the game, and that first sack was as much a function of Driskel being horrible as DJ getting beat off the snap.

Undersized guys will always get a few plays where they get the edge on a OT; that in and off itself isn't winning, sorry.

I stand by my assessment of the player: He is a good, fast and violent handed guy who isn't as athletic as the other edge guys, and didn't dominate good competition.

If you think that's fine for a 7th pick, go ahead and take him, but the OP's account of being astonished by Ray's first step and athleticism is hilarious. If he was astonished by Ray's explosion, did he pass out from watching Vic's get off which is easily superior?

BearsFan51 · Apr 20, 2015

Bort said:
Those weren't coverage sacks. Ray beat Humphries cleanly around the edge both times (and got held pretty badly on the first one). You can see for yourself:

and:

Uh oh you brought facts and video showing off that explosive first step. He's blows by Humphries before he's even out of his stance.

BearsFan51 · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRrM08N038c

Humphries was winning all game till the game got out of hand and that allowed the defensive line for mizzou to just pin their ears back and go after it without any worry about the run game. still give ray some credit for making the plays, but it certainly put Humphries at a disadvantage at that point in the game, whereas up to that point he had taken care of ray very well

The first few plays of the first quarter are broken down as follows, run play, quick flare pass on a one step drop, quick flare pass one step drop, run play run play, double team on Ray, Chip on Ray... drop back to pass QB hit by Ray by beating Humphries off the edge. Blitz up the middle slide block to Double Ray, fumble recovered by Missouri.

You've been wrong this entire conversation and are wrong again. Do you want to keep being wrong?

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

BearsFan51 said:
The first few plays of the first quarter are broken down as follows, run play, quick flare pass on a one step drop, quick flare pass one step drop, run play run play, double team on Ray, Chip on Ray... drop back to pass QB hit by Ray by beating Humphries off the edge. Blitz up the middle slide block to Double Ray, fumble recovered by Missouri.

You've been wrong this entire conversation and are wrong again. Do you want to keep being wrong?

so much hostility on 4/20. someone needs to take a hit or something. you obviously like to ignore everytime I mention how ray could end up being a nice player, I just don't see the same thing as you do to warrant taking him #7. if that makes me an idiot then so be it

BearsFan51 · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
so much hostility on 4/20. someone needs to take a hit or something. you obviously like to ignore everytime I mention how ray could end up being a nice player, I just don't see the same thing as you do to warrant taking him #7. if that makes me an idiot then so be it

You're making things up rather than dealing with video based evidence. I'll always go on the attack when people fabricate an argument to try and tear down or build up a player. You're not dealing with facts.

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

BearsFan51 said:
You're making things up rather than dealing with video based evidence. I'll always go on the attack when people fabricate an argument to try and tear down or build up a player. You're not dealing with facts.

FACTS
against Georgia 6 tackles 5 solo 0 sacks
against Arkansas 3 tackles 2 solo 0 sacks
against Alabama 2 tackles 1 solo .5 sack

that's my concern is against the top O lines he didnt produce like in his other games. if that is me fabricating then sorry :shrug:

Smokey Robinson · Apr 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
FACTS
against Georgia 6 tackles 5 solo 0 sacks
against Arkansas 3 tackles 2 solo 0 sacks
against Alabama 2 tackles 1 solo .5 sack

that's my concern is against the top O lines he didnt produce like in his other games. if that is me fabricating then sorry :shrug:

He was ejected in the second Q against Bama after smoking Sims so I would take that one out of your argument. Will have to review Georgia and Arkansas games to see how active he was pressure wise but to try and blast him for not having a sack every game of the season is unfair, it is also unfair to attempt to devalue the rest of the competition he faced and place those teams on a pedestal.

knoxville7 · Apr 20, 2015

Smokey Robinson said:
He was ejected in the second Q against Bama after smoking Sims so I would take that one out of your argument. Will have to review Georgia and Arkansas games to see how active he was pressure wise but to try and blast him for not having a sack every game of the season is unfair, it is also unfair to attempt to devalue the rest of the competition he faced and place those teams on a pedestal.

those were the top 3 offensive line units in the SEC that he faced last year. Humphries is a nice prospect, but the florida line overall was not that great of a unit

My final verdict on Shane Ray

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams

Well-known member

I have the stride of a gazelle

My favorite teams