OT - What are your thoughts on Chip Kelly

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

Just hear me out guys.

Often I provide my thoughts on the Bears and NFL football in general. I'd like to flip the script a bit and ask you guys what you think of my team's head coach.

He's done a lot in a short time and there has been a lot written about him. He's been called a heavy pass guy, racist, liar, egomaniac, etc... and he's had some success so far (20-12 NFL coaching record).

In a recent article from a local group that covers the Eagles he was quoted recently saying "10-6, not going to the playoffs, is just like being 4-12.". To put in context it was a press conference where he was talking about all the changes that he's made with the team since he's gotten full control over the roster. As a fan I really like that, but with Chip I keep wondering how much of his comments is just 'coach speak'. Of all the coaches I've watched closely I'd say Kelly is the hardest to figure out.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what you guys think. I respect some of your opinions and realistically from Ditka to Trestman you have a fairly large pool of info to draw from.

Hbkrusso · Jul 27, 2015

I'm still up in the air on the guy seems like he might end up a success but I think its gonna depend mainly on how the teams in his division decide to manage his style

the whole upbeat super fast tempo type deals always seem to platau just under greatness in the nfl

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

I'm sort of holding my breath on the high speed thing. I loved his first game against Washington where the DBs clearly had no idea what the defensive playcall was and the Eagles were just crushing them. It's even come a long way since that game in terms of what the opposition does and how prepared they are.

Maybe adding to my apprehension is that I'm typically just not a beliver that coaches can make the jump from college to the pros easily. I remember really wanting Gus Bradley as opposed to Chip Kelly, but overall I'm happy with what he's done.

Warrior Spirit · Jul 27, 2015

Pegger said:
Just hear me out guys.

Often I provide my thoughts on the Bears and NFL football in general. I'd like to flip the script a bit and ask you guys what you think of my team's head coach.

He's done a lot in a short time and there has been a lot written about him. He's been called a heavy pass guy, racist, liar, egomaniac, etc... and he's had some success so far (20-12 NFL coaching record).

In a recent article from a local group that covers the Eagles he was quoted recently saying "10-6, not going to the playoffs, is just like being 4-12.". To put in context it was a press conference where he was talking about all the changes that he's made with the team since he's gotten full control over the roster. As a fan I really like that, but with Chip I keep wondering how much of his comments is just 'coach speak'. Of all the coaches I've watched closely I'd say Kelly is the hardest to figure out.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what you guys think. I respect some of your opinions and realistically from Ditka to Trestman you have a fairly large pool of info to draw from.

He's an enigma to be sure. Has made some head scratching moves since being given the reigns. Get to the playoffs and then he's not going to look so crazy. Miss out on the playoffs and there's gonna be a lot of fingers pointing at him.

iueyedoc · Jul 27, 2015

Sorta along the lines of HBK. I think in college his offense took advantage of less talented depth with teams to wear down the studs and then to impose their will on them with their tongue dragging or against future real estate brokers and car salesmen. That is not nearly as easy in the NFL. The style is different enough to cause team discomfort with only a week to prepare, but NFL talent depth is too great to defeat teams on the quick pace alone.

He seems to think he is quite a bit smarter than everybody else and that usually leads to making bad deals and roster moves. With his increase in power, I don't see it ending well with him. I would say the over/under for him being back coaching college is the post 2016/17 season.

dawags · Jul 27, 2015

I think he's the Buddy Ryan of offense and he's made the Eagles one of the most fun teams to watch in the NFL. Curious to see if he's adjusted his thoughts on the insignificance of TOP as I remember hearing many players say they were spent towards the end of the season. Is he moving to a power running game so as not to score so fast and save his defense? How long will he hang on to veterans that may wear down quicker with his up tempo game? If is recent moves don't pan out, how will his ego and his players deal with the adversity? I don't know but I'll be paying more attention to the Eagles than I used to. Hope that helps Pegger as I think you are one of the more thoughtful posters on here.

Larsonite · Jul 27, 2015

I think this is a huge season for chip. He either cements himself as a football master mind or spurrier's his way back to college. Imo he should be just an oc in the nfl. I think he's a bit controlling and has taken on too much decision making. Let him hyper control just the offense and he'll be in the nfl for years. Letting him run every aspect of the team is playing with kerosene. What I'd be worried most about is him losing his players trust and respect. If all these changes don't creates wins early in the season, will the players, org, media and fans keep faith? It'll be fun watching what happens though. Sure to be very dramatic on and off the field.

Bearly · Jul 27, 2015

I think he's quite smart but his own worst enemy. Seems like unconventional rules the day. He's not the only smart guy and Ds will catch up to some extent.

theOHIOSTATE! · Jul 27, 2015

I think he is a very good Offensive mind, but things won't end well in Philly/...

Gimmicks don't generally work in the NFL, and the back 7 players in the league are just so much more athletic and better at tackling that once people scheme for his offense a few times, it's just not that big of a deal anymore. Also, he not only alienated some of his players apparently, but some of the stuff they're saying seems not so great for his image overall.

Warrior Spirit · Jul 27, 2015

Pickles said:
I think he's quite smart but his own worst enemy. Seems like unconventional rules the day. He's not the only smart guy and Ds will catch up to some extent.

Maybe not so smart. I'm convinced he wanted Bradford for nothing other than a piece to help him get Mariotta and that backfired on him. Cutting Mathis seems dumb as well. Other questionable moves too so...

ruprecht · Jul 27, 2015

He tends to think he is the smartest guy in the room, but sometimes he is. I see him back in college sooner rather than later and think that is where he should have stayed. Loved him as the Ducks coach though.

RisWell · Jul 27, 2015

Im a fan of Chips. He believes in his system. People talking shit but he has some serious weapons on offense and that Jordan Mathews can ball.

Raskolnikov · Jul 27, 2015

dawags said:
I think he's the Buddy Ryan of offense and he's made the Eagles one of the most fun teams to watch in the NFL. Curious to see if he's adjusted his thoughts on the insignificance of TOP as I remember hearing many players say they were spent towards the end of the season. Is he moving to a power running game so as not to score so fast and save his defense? How long will he hang on to veterans that may wear down quicker with his up tempo game? If is recent moves don't pan out, how will his ego and his players deal with the adversity? I don't know but I'll be paying more attention to the Eagles than I used to. Hope that helps Pegger as I think you are one of the more thoughtful posters on here.

I don't see Buddy Ryan. Buddy Ryan was controlled chaos. Chip Kelly is chaotic precision. He runs an orchestra. Buddy Ryan ran a mad house of personalities that Chip Kelly does not tolerate so I nix that comparison.

Chip would have cleaned house and kept Mike Singletary. haha. I think he doesn't understand yet that he can't win and control his locker room completely and have just the guys he wants who behave and cow to him.

NFL players know what they are doing and why, they ask questions, they have inout, they are professionals and some will go on to coaching. Others have toxic personalities and big ego's. I think he destroyed that team personally, but this year will show.

If he got Marriota he may have bought himself 3 years. I think we will see this year his QB selections will sink him. he has several, they all suck.

If he has another winning season, I will have to concede he is here to stay at pro level, and my comparison would be Parcels of offense.

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

I'm not looking to defend against any of your points and really just wanted to get your opinions. There's a couple I've got some follow up questions:

theOHIOSTATE! said:
I think he is a very good Offensive mind, but things won't end well in Philly/...

Gimmicks don't generally work in the NFL, and the back 7 players in the league are just so much more athletic and better at tackling that once people scheme for his offense a few times, it's just not that big of a deal anymore. Also, he not only alienated some of his players apparently, but some of the stuff they're saying seems not so great for his image overall.

From a scheme point of view he doesn't really use any gimmicks. Washington with RG3 went only read option. That was a gimmick and was figured out. Kelly's system is a combination of motion, power running, spread with some read option. Essentially he's got a team that schematically can do different things and throughout the game he tries to figure out what works best against the defense and then has different systems once an adjustment is made.

I'd say the things he's brought is his speed of play and the whole sports science. I don't consider either a gimmick, but maybe expand on your thoughts a bit.

Spartan said:
Maybe not so smart. I'm convinced he wanted Bradford for nothing other than a piece to help him get Mariotta and that backfired on him. Cutting Mathis seems dumb as well. Other questionable moves too so...

Yeah, I'm thinking he just wanted Bradford. Maybe more accurately put he knew what he had in Foles and with listening to his QB coach (who coached Bradford in St.Louis) felt strongly that they could upgrade the QB position in that move. Pre-trade I liked Foles way more than Bradford. Now I'm of the mindset that Chip knows QB evaluation and player system fit better than I do, so I'm on board.

I agree that cutting Mathis was dumb. It was strictly to send a message that distractions won't be tolerated. There has been some talk that Mathis might eventually test out the FA market and if he can't get a good contract come back to Chip with his tail between his legs asking him to match whatever his best offer was. Chip would come out looking like a genius, but at this time I'm still wondering how the guard spots flush out.

Some other weird moves with what's been communicated as the underlying reasons:

Trading McCoy - Not a one cut runner, which Chip likes. Not a system fit, so the Eagles actually approached the Jets and they were willing to part with Kiko for him.
Cutting Herremans - just too expensive for a player not worth that money.
Cutting Cary Williams - He didn't buy in and was the loudest person questioning Chip's trainging methods. He also sucked and wasn't worth the money.
Cutting Cole - He was due over $10M. Just not worth that much.
Not resigning Maclin - They just got outbid by the Chiefs by $1-1.5M/season. Maclin gave them a chance to match and they declined.
Cutting Desean - Nobody wanted to trade for him with his contract, so they moved on from a player who was also questioning Chip's methods.
Paying Maxwell a boat load - They played Seattle and in their prep they learned how good he was. In that game it didn't matter if it was Maclin, Matthews or Cooper whomever went up against him was shut down. On that day he was a lot better than Sherman.

Warrior Spirit · Jul 27, 2015

Pegger said:
I'm not looking to defend against any of your points and really just wanted to get your opinions. There's a couple I've got some follow up questions:

From a scheme point of view he doesn't really use any gimmicks. Washington with RG3 went only read option. That was a gimmick and was figured out. Kelly's system is a combination of motion, power running, spread with some read option. Essentially he's got a team that schematically can do different things and throughout the game he tries to figure out what works best against the defense and then has different systems once an adjustment is made.

I'd say the things he's brought is his speed of play and the whole sports science. I don't consider either a gimmick, but maybe expand on your thoughts a bit.

Yeah, I'm thinking he just wanted Bradford. Maybe more accurately put he knew what he had in Foles and with listening to his QB coach (who coached Bradford in St.Louis) felt strongly that they could upgrade the QB position in that move. Pre-trade I liked Foles way more than Bradford. Now I'm of the mindset that Chip knows QB evaluation and player system fit better than I do, so I'm on board.

I agree that cutting Mathis was dumb. It was strictly to send a message that distractions won't be tolerated. There has been some talk that Mathis might eventually test out the FA market and if he can't get a good contract come back to Chip with his tail between his legs asking him to match whatever his best offer was. Chip would come out looking like a genius, but at this time I'm still wondering how the guard spots flush out.

Some other weird moves with what's been communicated as the underlying reasons:

Trading McCoy - Not a one cut runner, which Chip likes. Not a system fit, so the Eagles actually approached the Jets and they were willing to part with Kiko for him.
Cutting Herremans - just too expensive for a player not worth that money.
Cutting Cary Williams - He didn't buy in and was the loudest person questioning Chip's trainging methods. He also sucked and wasn't worth the money.
Cutting Cole - He was due over $10M. Just not worth that much.
Not resigning Maclin - They just got outbid by the Chiefs by $1-1.5M/season. Maclin gave them a chance to match and they declined.
Cutting Desean - Nobody wanted to trade for him with his contract, so they moved on from a player who was also questioning Chip's methods.
Paying Maxwell a boat load - They played Seattle and in their prep they learned how good he was. In that game it didn't matter if it was Maclin, Matthews or Cooper whomever went up against him was shut down. On that day he was a lot better than Sherman.

Remember, Bradford was just one of many thrown in to a large package deal to try to lure that pick away from the Titans. I would have taken it if I was them. A lot of impressive athletes to be had.

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

Raskolnikov said:
I don't see Buddy Ryan. Buddy Ryan was controlled chaos. Chip Kelly is chaotic precision. He runs an orchestra. Buddy Ryan ran a mad house of personalities that Chip Kelly does not tolerate so I nix that comparison.

Chip would have cleaned house and kept Mike Singletary. haha. I think he doesn't understand yet that he can't win and control his locker room completely and have just the guys he wants who behave and cow to him.

NFL players know what they are doing and why, they ask questions, they have inout, they are professionals and some will go on to coaching. Others have toxic personalities and big ego's. I think he destroyed that team personally, but this year will show.

If he got Marriota he may have bought himself 3 years. I think we will see this year his QB selections will sink him. he has several, they all suck.

If he has another winning season, I will have to concede he is here to stay at pro level, and my comparison would be Parcels of offense.

Good comparision on the Ryan vs. Kelly. I tend to agree with you, but his point might have been more towards how specialized both were as head coaches.

The one thing I'd say about the QB positon in general is that he's adopted almost everything he's had to work with:

Vick - Had a big Andy Reid contract and was the best fit on paper, but ultimately his knack for turning the ball over killed him.
Foles - Drafted by AR and had a monster season relaving Vick. As teams caught on to what Chip was trying to do systematically he also began to turn the ball over.
Sanchez - He was a cheap vet backup who was never brought in to be the starter.

Despite each of those guys having limitations each had success:

Vick actually played very well his first 2 games with Chip, but then started to hold onto the ball too long.
Foles had the crazy 27 TD and 2 Int season and still looked good in parts last year.
Mark Sanchez had the highest QB rating by 10 points in starting 8 games last year (88 rating on the season).

I think Kelly sees Bradford as his first chance to target someone he feels will succeed in his system and go after him. If it doesn't work then he'll move on. If it works then he'll look smart. At the end of the day this system helps the QB out a lot because much of the work is done in presnap reads and they get the ball out quickly. There isn't much in terms of progressing through route combinations or asking the QB to keep the play alive.

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

Spartan said:
Remember, Bradford was just one of many thrown in to a large package deal to try to lure that pick away from the Titans. I would have taken it if I was them. A lot of impressive athletes to be had.

That 'rumored' trade was weird and I still have no idea what was real. The Titans were claiming they were being offered Bradford, Cox, Kendricks and draft picks. The Eagles claim they were never offering players and Kelly is on record that he wouldn't mortgage the future when it comes to giving up future picks. When I look at what the Titans were offered there's one thing that doesn't make sense - Why wouldn't they take the deal? If I had the 2nd overall pick and someone came at me with a deal like that I'm saying 'yes'.

I think this is partially how trades go down. Both sides are creating leverage. Titans want a massive deal communicated so other teams can either come forward and match/compete with that deal while the Eagles/Bears/whoever else that was in the Mariota circus are trying to quietly negotiate. At the end a deal wasn't reached and all teams put on their PR hats and do disaster recovery over what was leaked.

Warrior Spirit · Jul 27, 2015

Pegger said:
That 'rumored' trade was weird and I still have no idea what was real. The Titans were claiming they were being offered Bradford, Cox, Kendricks and draft picks. The Eagles claim they were never offering players and Kelly is on record that he wouldn't mortgage the future when it comes to giving up future picks. When I look at what the Titans were offered there's one thing that doesn't make sense - Why wouldn't they take the deal? If I had the 2nd overall pick and someone came at me with a deal like that I'm saying 'yes'.

I think this is partially how trades go down. Both sides are creating leverage. Titans want a massive deal communicated so other teams can either come forward and match/compete with that deal while the Eagles/Bears/whoever else that was in the Mariota circus are trying to quietly negotiate. At the end a deal wasn't reached and all teams put on their PR hats and do disaster recovery over what was leaked.

You know how QBs are. You have no choice but to deny you offered them up in any type trade. It did seem legit though. The same guys were long rumored to have been offered before it was announced on draft day that they were being offered. Boykin and 2 first round picks were added to those you already mentioned. No doubt he was thinking Mariota from the beginning.

Don't see what anyone would think you can get from Bradford that you couldn't get from Foles anyway.

Pegger · Jul 27, 2015

Spartan said:
Don't see what anyone would think you can get from Bradford that you couldn't get from Foles anyway.

So here's what I'm being fed by those that cover the Eagles closely:

- Eagles Offensvie Coordinator since 2013, Pat Shumer, was the Offensive Coordinator in St. Louis from 2009-10. The 2010 season was Bradford's rookie year, so Shumer knows not only what Kelly wants to do on offense, but what Bradford's strengths are. Adding to this Shumer also knows what Foles brings to the table, so he's probably in the best spot to compare both players.
- Bradford was a frist overall pick and was a better pure prospect than Foles.
- The rumor is that many teams still hold Bradford in high regard and he was worth a lower first round pick in a trade, whereas Foles was not.
- The two repaired ACLs in the same knee has lowered Bradford's value where he's now affordable. It's a 'buy low' approach whereas Foles may have hit the ceiling in Chip Kelly's system in 2013.

When I'm trying to be objective and sit back sure there's his knee that's a concern, but he also came into the league with a shoulder issue and had concussion and ankle issues at Oklahoma. I know Kelly really believes in Sport Science, but it's not like that alone can take someone made of glass and turn them into the Wolverine.

truthbedamned · Jul 27, 2015

Tim Tebow will lead the Eagles to a SB victory

OT - What are your thoughts on Chip Kelly

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