Paxson said Forman's job isn't in jeopardy.

Enasic · Apr 14, 2016

Gustavus Adolphus said:
IF, and that's a big IF, the Bulls resign him it needs to be incentive based. PPG, games played, APG, FG%, minutes played - whatever. You just can't give big money to a guy who can't give you at least 75 games.

Honestly, unless he has a MONSTER year next year....as in, MVP-esque, we shouldn't re-sign him at all, IMO. We all loved Derrick Rose because he was awesome. He was dominant. He was passionate. And he was young with a seemingly infinite future in front of him. Well, he's now average, inconsistent, and often times disinterested. He's older, and his future is bleak. It sucks. It really does. But that's just life. It happens. Derrick's not the first guy it happened to and he certainly won't be the last. You have to separate your emotions from it and just see the writing on the wall. Eventually you have to turn the page. Anyone who has a problem with this or is bothered by this, needs to seriously grow the fuck up.

Diddy1122 · Apr 14, 2016

John, we don't give a shit that you were "upset" that no one "stood up" for Taj after a hard foul. YOU HELPED BUILD THE ROSTER DUMBASS! I mean does he honestly expect us to believe that he took one look at the roster at the start of the season, after the complete disappearing act in the East Semis previously, and thought they actually had fight in them?? That type of delusional thinking is not only a cause for termination but is the DIRECT CAUSE of the championship window slamming shut for the franchise!

However, the truly sad fact is that we are stuck with John Paxson until the last wheezing breath escapes Reinsdorf's body. Foreman could be let go, or at the least "reassigned", but even that may not happen and certainly wouldn't anytime soon. This has been the most depressing Bulls season I've ever experienced in my 30+ years of fandom. Worse than the dark days of the early 2000's because at least then we knew why the team was utterly horrible and had no expectations of them being even mildly good.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 14, 2016

Enasic said:
Honestly, unless he has a MONSTER year next year....as in, MVP-esque, we shouldn't re-sign him at all, IMO. We all loved Derrick Rose because he was awesome. He was dominant. He was passionate. And he was young with a seemingly infinite future in front of him. Well, he's now average, inconsistent, and often times disinterested. He's older, and his future is bleak. It sucks. It really does. But that's just life. It happens. Derrick's not the first guy it happened to and he certainly won't be the last. You have to separate your emotions from it and just see the writing on the wall. Eventually you have to turn the page. Anyone who has a problem with this or is bothered by this, needs to seriously grow the fuck up.

Look, I ain't disagreeing with you on this. You and I are in complete agreement. I'm just saying - if he improves his 43rd in the league PER to the top 20 it might be worth a resign - BUT with incentives. You have to begin to wrestle some kind of control away from him and Reggie. Which I think Pax started to do last night.

Enasic · Apr 14, 2016

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Look, I ain't disagreeing with you on this. You and I are in complete agreement. I'm just saying - if he improves his 43rd in the league PER to the top 20 it might be worth a resign - BUT with incentives. You have to begin to wrestle some kind of control away from him and Reggie. Which I think Pax started to do last night.

Yeah, I could possibly be on board with this. I would be open to a heavily incentive laden deal (which Rose probably wouldn't be) but he would have to play even better than he did the 2nd half of the season from start to finish next year. That's just my take on it. Even when he was playing his best ball this year, there wasn't any sense of urgency with him. His defense wasn't where it needed to be, and even when he put up some respectable games, the sense of urgency and fight weren't there. I mentioned this before, but when we played NY at home, he put up some decent numbers....not great, but pretty good. On paper, it was a decent game. We still lost, but to someone not watching the game, it was a decent game. Fast forward to the very next day when we traveled to NY to play in the garden....there was MUCH more pep in his step, he was fully engaged, and he looked to put his stamp on the game. We lost again, but at least he gave you that fighting effort. The sense of urgency was there. The passion was there. In short what I'm saying is, I'm not as focused as much with his numbers (although they're still important) as I am with the WAY he plays and the way he looks. He could pull off good numbers and still be hurting us because he's not going all in. We need guys who are all in, all the time. No excuse, no exceptions. That's the culture I would be looking to build here.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 14, 2016

Enasic said:
Yeah, I could possibly be on board with this. I would be open to a heavily incentive laden deal (which Rose probably wouldn't be) but he would have to play even better than he did the 2nd half of the season from start to finish next year. That's just my take on it. Even when he was playing his best ball this year, there wasn't any sense of urgency with him. His defense wasn't where it needed to be, and even when he put up some respectable games, the sense of urgency and fight weren't there. I mentioned this before, but when we played NY at home, he put up some decent numbers....not great, but pretty good. On paper, it was a decent game. We still lost, but to someone not watching the game, it was a decent game. Fast forward to the very next day when we traveled to NY to play in the garden....there was MUCH more pep in his step, he was fully engaged, and he looked to put his stamp on the game. We lost again, but at least he gave you that fighting effort. The sense of urgency was there. The passion was there. In short what I'm saying is, I'm not as focused as much with his numbers (although they're still important) as I am with the WAY he plays and the way he looks. He could pull off good numbers and still be hurting us because he's not going all in. We need guys who are all in, all the time. No excuse, no exceptions. That's the culture I would be looking to build here.

I have no issue with anything here.

RacerX · Apr 14, 2016

Enasic said:
How anyone could be confident or think depending on Rose as a cornerstone to the franchise going forward is beyond me. The guy isn't dominant anymore, is inconsistent, is prone to injury and taking games off due to general soreness or whatever else, and flat out cannot be depended on. Does it suck? Yes. Is it Rose's fault his body gave out on him and he's not the same player anymore? No. Is he completely blame free in all of this or done and said all the right things? No. This is just reality. It's lunacy that someone would have a problem with this. Derrick Rose has done nothing in 5 years to warrant confidence in him as a foundational piece or a guy you invest max dollars to. This is just common sense. Am I saying there's absolutely no way he can turn it around or make improvements next year? No. It's possible. Should anyone expect it after 5 years of disappointment? Of course fucking not. I wonder if people felt the same way about Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway when they faded away into oblivion.

his body is broken and he can't shoot worth a fuck. but i have no hate for him, he's doing what he can, it's the fucktards in the FO that should be tarred and feathered. failing to trade Pau is emblematic of this failed regime. like he was going to lead this dysfunctional mess anywhere.

RacerX · Apr 14, 2016

Enasic said:
Yeah, I could possibly be on board with this. I would be open to a heavily incentive laden deal (which Rose probably wouldn't be) but he would have to play even better than he did the 2nd half of the season from start to finish next year. That's just my take on it. Even when he was playing his best ball this year, there wasn't any sense of urgency with him. His defense wasn't where it needed to be, and even when he put up some respectable games, the sense of urgency and fight weren't there. I mentioned this before, but when we played NY at home, he put up some decent numbers....not great, but pretty good. On paper, it was a decent game. We still lost, but to someone not watching the game, it was a decent game. Fast forward to the very next day when we traveled to NY to play in the garden....there was MUCH more pep in his step, he was fully engaged, and he looked to put his stamp on the game. We lost again, but at least he gave you that fighting effort. The sense of urgency was there. The passion was there. In short what I'm saying is, I'm not as focused as much with his numbers (although they're still important) as I am with the WAY he plays and the way he looks. He could pull off good numbers and still be hurting us because he's not going all in. We need guys who are all in, all the time. No excuse, no exceptions. That's the culture I would be looking to build here.

I hope DR is a future Knickerbocker, they seem to deserve one another.

Enasic · Apr 14, 2016

RacerX said:
I hope DR is a future Knickerbocker, they seem to deserve one another.

Don't really care where he goes if he leaves.

RacerX said:
his body is broken and he can't shoot worth a fuck. but i have no hate for him, he's doing what he can, it's the fucktards in the FO that should be tarred and feathered. failing to trade Pau is emblematic of this failed regime. like he was going to lead this dysfunctional mess anywhere.

I of course have no hate for the guy. I don't really like him, personally...but I don't remotely hate him either. I agree the FO deserves the biggest blame but I really don't think not trading Gasol is that big of a deal. Kosta Koufas is a decent player but that's about it. I actually agree with Gar that the cap space we'll get when Gasol walks is more valuable than Koufas. Plus it was reported that it was Sacramento who stopped the trade and not the Bulls. The FO deserves a shit ton of blame, but I'm not putting that on them. Koufas isn't and wouldn't be a core piece. Take the cap space over a role player.

Scoot26 · Apr 15, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
[video=youtube;m21URyBS--Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m21URyBS--Y[/video]

All I got out of the press conference was that Jimmy Butler is leaving and Fred Hoiberg is staying. Which was kind of my inclination going into it.

Yeah agreed. Paxson seems to have it in for Butler, which has means we won't get jack shit for him.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

The Hawk · Apr 15, 2016

Scoot26 said:
Yeah agreed. Paxson seems to have it in for Butler, which has means we won't get jack shit for him.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

If they trade Butler because Paxson doesn't like him, someone should beat the crap out of Paxton and ride him out of town on a rail.

Scoot26 · Apr 15, 2016

The Hawk said:
If they trade Butler because Paxson doesn't like him, someone should beat the crap out of Paxton and ride him out of town on a rail.

I nominate you.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

The Hawk · Apr 15, 2016

Enasic said:
How anyone could be confident or think depending on Rose as a cornerstone to the franchise going forward is beyond me. The guy isn't dominant anymore, is inconsistent, is prone to injury and taking games off due to general soreness or whatever else, and flat out cannot be depended on. Does it suck? Yes. Is it Rose's fault his body gave out on him and he's not the same player anymore? No. Is he completely blame free in all of this or done and said all the right things? No. This is just reality. It's lunacy that someone would have a problem with this. Derrick Rose has done nothing in 5 years to warrant confidence in him as a foundational piece or a guy you invest max dollars to. This is just common sense. Am I saying there's absolutely no way he can turn it around or make improvements next year? No. It's possible. Should anyone expect it after 5 years of disappointment? Of course fucking not. I wonder if people felt the same way about Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway when they faded away into oblivion.

THey didn't about Grant Hill who played with knowledge and heart for his entire career even after injuries made him a shadow of his former self. He also taught a lot of younger players what it meant to be a professional. Elton Brand was also like that. ANother one of my all time favorite players.

The Hawk · Apr 15, 2016

What Paxson misses in his "presser" is his own self assessment. He puts it all on the players failures and to some extent Freddie's. What about HIS OWN? He's the one in charge of this mess. He built and bought the mess itself. He's the guy along with Garfield Goose who decimated the bench. He's the one who refused to make a trade for or draft a replacement for Deng and acquire a good three point shooter. He's the one who has enabled Rose to pick and choose what games he is going to play and let sit out whenever he wants to.

In other words, it is John Paxson who took a very good team and virtually destroyed it. ANd I think that it became obvious after Rose was hurt and refused to play even after he was cleared to play. WHere was bad ass Paxson then? He enabled Rose to set the tone of who ran the organization after that happened. I remember well people defending Rose back then. I didn't and anyone who has played a sport or has been in combat knows who is in and who is out when things get tough.

The true warriors of this team, Gibson, Butler, and Noah gave a shit and hated to lose. Same thing with Deng. All played their hearts out to the best of their ability, even when really hurting. Noone can tell me that they were not royally PISSED when they watched sit out and management back his sorry ass. WHere was tough guy Paxson then?

Axl Rose · Apr 15, 2016

Diddy1122 said:
John, we don't give a shit that you were "upset" that no one "stood up" for Taj after a hard foul. YOU HELPED BUILD THE ROSTER DUMBASS! I mean does he honestly expect us to believe that he took one look at the roster at the start of the season, after the complete disappearing act in the East Semis previously, and thought they actually had fight in them?? That type of delusional thinking is not only a cause for termination but is the DIRECT CAUSE of the championship window slamming shut for the franchise!

word of mouth is Paxson didn't like the roster from the start (obviously he signed off on it though) i thought it was interesting that Pax took control of the press conference and Gar barely spoke

im wondering if thats a sign of Pax taking full control again...Forman since the ACL injury has been a disaster...its been nothing but bad draft choices and drama

Scoot26 · Apr 15, 2016

Axl Rose said:
word of mouth is Paxson didn't like the roster from the start (obviously he signed off on it though) i thought it was interesting that Pax took control of the press conference and Gar barely spoke

im wondering if thats a sign of Pax taking full control again...Forman since the ACL injury has been a disaster...its been nothing but bad draft choices and drama

Why not just fire Gar then?

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

Axl Rose · Apr 15, 2016

Scoot26 said:
Why not just fire Gar then?

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

who knows? they never do things regularly....i mean Bulls are the only business in the world where you can physically assault a colleague and get promoted LOL

Diddy1122 · Apr 15, 2016

Axl Rose said:
word of mouth is Paxson didn't like the roster from the start (obviously he signed off on it though) i thought it was interesting that Pax took control of the press conference and Gar barely spoke

im wondering if thats a sign of Pax taking full control again...Forman since the ACL injury has been a disaster...its been nothing but bad draft choices and drama

Really, dude? You honestly mean to tell me that Pax was all "hands off" the past 4 years? Please, he's been involved in every damn decision since he left the radio broadcast and took the helm, regardless of his varying job titles over the years. He didn't like the roster but signed off on it? What the hell kind of boss would ever do that? None. Pax has the ultimate say-so on all roster decisions. Period. What Pax did in that press conference is what he's always done, deflect the blame. He's setting it up so that Gar takes the fall because Pax knows that Reiny's allegiance is with him.

If Pax really didn't like this roster, he wouldn't have thrown Thibs completely under the bus after firing him, brought back virtually the same exact roster, or spouted off about how Hoiberg would help them take the next step into the Finals. The blame rests on Paxson and Forman but more so on Paxson as he is THE BOSS.

RoseMVP1 · Apr 15, 2016

What I took away is that we're fucked until Reinsdorf is dead or forced to step aside.

houheffna · Apr 16, 2016

I think Butler is gone. I don't think you can reason with him at this point. He not only thinks he is great, he thinks he is above reproach it seems. And I don't think he cares for Rose one bit. I really don't. If they work out together for longer than two days...I will be shocked. It might be a case of him vs. Hoiberg...he doesn't want to run Hoiberg's system...he may HAVE to go.

Rose is coming back because that contract is an albatross. As far as this site losing fans because of Rose's fans...lol to that. Site was here before Rose, will be here after Rose. What is sad is this year 2 more league MVPs are going to the HOF. That leaves Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Nash and Curry besides Rose. The only ones of that group that is NOT a shoe in is Durant and Rose. And Durant is much closer....

Why are people clinging to the only MVP who most likely will NOT be a HOF player? I don't even know if he gets his number retired. People didn't sweat Scottie Pippen this hard. If he goes he goes...he will never be the same. And his statements to the media show his aloofness.

The biggest issue is Paxson and Forman. The beat writers talked about how odd it was that they held their press conference while big happenings were going on in league...usually they wait until the next day. They "hid" the press conference. Having the press conference while Golden State was trying to break the wins record and Kobe was scoring 60 in his last game was a sad combination of genius and cowardice. Keeping Forman would not have gone over as easily on Friday morning. So that is the way I have to look at the front office now...cowardly.

Enasic · Apr 16, 2016

Is it just me or did Gar mostly speak during the Hoiberg hiring? Also, when they fired Thibs, I seem to recall Gar and Pax speaking relatively evenly. I could be wrong though. This press conference was basically 99% Pax. I'm wondering if it means Pax is taking more of the reigns, or if they just didn't want Gar to speak because he sounds so dispirited and robotic about things. The guy has no passion when he speaks. Say what you want about Paxson, he's probably a sociopath but the guy has balls unlike his neutered partner.

Paxson said Forman's job isn't in jeopardy.

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