Why did they slide?

rawdawg · May 28, 2016

Walter Football has a series of post-draft articles up that discuss what they've learned talking to NFL teams about why certain players went later than they were projected. Well, a couple have been Bears draft picks and potential steals....... So, here's a couple short reads.

http://walterfootball.com/ws2016jbullard.php
http://walterfootball.com/ws2016dbraverman.php

rawdawg · May 28, 2016

The Bullard concerns by teams sound pretty stupid to me. He measured in at 6'3", 285 (not 6'2", 283 as article states) with 33 5/8" arms at the combine. That length is pretty close to ideal for an offensive tackle (who he'd be lined up over as a 5-tech). I can see the weight being an issue for 4-3 teams, but he looks like he can put on 5-10 lbs to make him decent pass rushing 3-tech size 4-3 teams covet. I think he was a top 40 player in the draft that the Bears got at 72. Could be the steal of the draft, IMO.

Hawkeye OG · May 28, 2016

Both links take me to the Braverman page, fyi. The articles main thing against Braverman is his size won't be competent for the physicality of the NFL. He is 5'10 177lbs and Royal is listed at 5'10 185lbs. Are those 8lbs going to make Braverman able to take more hits? It won't be difficult for him to put on a few pounds. If Royal is actually healthy this year, I see him being the slot guy but if Braverman can stick around as a back up he could be the guy next year.

didshereallysaythat · May 28, 2016

Putting on 10 lbs of muscle for the regular joe without gaining fat can be TOUGH for hard gainers.

Does anyone know what they do in an NFL training room that might be different than what you see your 10% bf gym rats do? Is creatine mono a banned NFL substance?

Burrberry · May 28, 2016

Apparently Bullard has a weird body type that scouts weren't crazy about. I could not give a fuck less as long as the man can play.

BearsFan51 · May 28, 2016

These types of articles immediately make you realize why the long off season evaluation period can be so detrimental to a team's draft prospects. The combine and pro days only compound it. Can the kid play? Does he show up consistently?

6-3 285 isn't under sized for a defensive tackle so that strikes me as a complete miss on the part of evaluators. Braverman not quite as much given his timed speed and size. Usually you want your slot guys to be explosive ala Johnny Knox in the 4.2 to 4.3 range, rather than the high 4.4 to 4.5 range.

So many players get passed on despite their ability to play and it's easy to see why 30-percent of rosters are made up with UDFAs.

didshereallysaythat · May 28, 2016

BearsFan51 said:
These types of articles immediately make you realize why the long off season evaluation period can be so detrimental to a team's draft prospects. The combine and pro days only compound it. Can the kid play? Does he show up consistently?

6-3 285 isn't under sized for a defensive tackle so that strikes me as a complete miss on the part of evaluators. Braverman not quite as much given his timed speed and size. Usually you want your slot guys to be explosive ala Johnny Knox in the 4.2 to 4.3 range, rather than the high 4.4 to 4.5 range.

So many players get passed on despite their ability to play and it's easy to see why 30-percent of rosters are made up with UDFAs.

No idea how Scooby Wright was picked 250 with his production. Seems crazy to me.

Escobar's Army · May 28, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
Putting on 10 lbs of muscle for the regular joe without gaining fat can be TOUGH for hard gainers.

Does anyone know what they do in an NFL training room that might be different than what you see your 10% bf gym rats do? Is creatine mono a banned NFL substance?

It can be without professional nutritionists and trainers. I could put 10 pounds of muscle on him in 3 months tops.

ThatGuyRyan · May 28, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
Putting on 10 lbs of muscle for the regular joe without gaining fat can be TOUGH for hard gainers.

Does anyone know what they do in an NFL training room that might be different than what you see your 10% bf gym rats do? Is creatine mono a banned NFL substance?

Creatine doesn't do shit but cause you to retain some water. It certainly can be tough but you realize these teams have the absolute best trainers and nutritionist's on the planet right? My guess is these guys who are trying to gain mass are eating 4-5 meals per day high protein/low fat. I would venture to guess they're being expected to eat around 4-5,000 calories per day of clean food. A buddy of mine went from a stick (145 lbs @ 6'1") to 190 lbs @ 8% body fat in approximately 4 years. He did this all on his own and now runs his own fitness company. So I have no doubts the pros that work with the teams will have these guys diald in so long as they follow the program.

Burrberry · May 28, 2016

HawkBear said:
Both links take me to the Braverman page, fyi. The articles main thing against Braverman is his size won't be competent for the physicality of the NFL. He is 5'10 177lbs and Royal is listed at 5'10 185lbs. Are those 8lbs going to make Braverman able to take more hits? It won't be difficult for him to put on a few pounds. If Royal is actually healthy this year, I see him being the slot guy but if Braverman can stick around as a back up he could be the guy next year.

I wouldn't put it past them to move Royal. His best year was his rookie season IIRC. I've heard the Duncan kid with 4.2 4.3 speed is looking good.

SilenceS · May 28, 2016

BearsFan51 said:
These types of articles immediately make you realize why the long off season evaluation period can be so detrimental to a team's draft prospects. The combine and pro days only compound it. Can the kid play? Does he show up consistently?

6-3 285 isn't under sized for a defensive tackle so that strikes me as a complete miss on the part of evaluators. Braverman not quite as much given his timed speed and size. Usually you want your slot guys to be explosive ala Johnny Knox in the 4.2 to 4.3 range, rather than the high 4.4 to 4.5 range.

So many players get passed on despite their ability to play and it's easy to see why 30-percent of rosters are made up with UDFAs.

What? The average defensive tackle the NFL is around 300 pounds and the trend is going upward not downward. Im not going to evaluate this guy because I dont know a ton about him, but he is def. undersized as a defensive tackle in the NFL.

PrideisBears · May 28, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
Putting on 10 lbs of muscle for the regular joe without gaining fat can be TOUGH for hard gainers.

Does anyone know what they do in an NFL training room that might be different than what you see your 10% bf gym rats do? Is creatine mono a banned NFL substance?

NFL facilities have nutritionistand all the gym equipment in the world

msadows · May 28, 2016

This is some top notch analysis by walterfootball.

I never would have assumed that both players were undersized and fell.

Some real deep insight there.

/sarcasm

DC · May 28, 2016

rawdawg said:
Walter Football has a series of post-draft articles up that discuss what they've learned talking to NFL teams about why certain players went later than they were projected. Well, a couple have been Bears draft picks and potential steals....... So, here's a couple short reads.

http://walterfootball.com/ws2016jbullard.php
http://walterfootball.com/ws2016dbraverman.php

How is this an article? I mean, isn't this "no shit" territory?

"Sources say there were a few reasons why their teams repeatedly passed on Braverman. The biggest issue is size and the limitations that are presented with Braverman being 5-foot-10, 177 pounds. He is deficient in height, strength, length and physicality for the NFL. That limits him to being just a slot receiver. With being so undersized and not being projected to being an outside receiver, Braverman was graded as a late pick by teams.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/ws2016dbraverman.php#ZUPyGrDYzhvBqhe2.9"

DC · May 28, 2016

msadows said:
This is some top notch analysis by walterfootball.

I never would have assumed that both players were undersized and fell.

Some real deep insight there.

/sarcasm

I should have read the comments first. Exactly.

GSH_34 · May 28, 2016

rawdawg said:
The Bullard concerns by teams sound pretty stupid to me. He measured in at 6'3", 285 (not 6'2", 283 as article states) with 33 5/8" arms at the combine. That length is pretty close to ideal for an offensive tackle (who he'd be lined up over as a 5-tech). I can see the weight being an issue for 4-3 teams, but he looks like he can put on 5-10 lbs to make him decent pass rushing 3-tech size 4-3 teams covet. I think he was a top 40 player in the draft that the Bears got at 72. Could be the steal of the draft, IMO.

Really makes you wonder why he fell though. Tape, measurables, upside, character...he graded out well on all of those.

Just a case of teams overthinking and/or drafting for need over value?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

GSH_34 · May 28, 2016

SilenceS said:
What? The average defensive tackle the NFL is around 300 pounds and the trend is going upward not downward. Im not going to evaluate this guy because I dont know a ton about him, but he is def. undersized as a defensive tackle in the NFL.

What's the average size for a 5 technique?

I think the one accurate 'knock' is that he's a tweener, but his upside as a pass rusher and penetrator from the 5-technique is salivating, especially with his burst.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

ZenBear34 · May 28, 2016

GSH_34 said:
Really makes you wonder why he fell though. Tape, measurables, upside, character...he graded out well on all of those.

Just a case of teams overthinking and/or drafting for need over value?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

I think the scheme limitations are accurate. He's not a fit in a traditional 3-4 and is solely an under tackle in a 4-3 or hybrid scheme. And he's undersized for that role and lacks the elite explosion and athleticism most undersized 3 techniques have.

Basically he's limited to wade Phillip's style one gap 3-4s or coordinators like Fangio who tailor their scheme to their player's talents.

GSH_34 · May 28, 2016

ZenBear34 said:
I think the scheme limitations are accurate. He's not a fit in a traditional 3-4 and is solely an under tackle in a 4-3 or hybrid scheme. And he's undersized for that role and lacks the elite explosion and athleticism most undersized 3 techniques have.

Basically he's limited to wade Phillip's style one gap 3-4s or coordinators like Fangio who tailor their scheme to their player's talents.

Exactly. A guy with his talent and upside you find ways to fit in your system.

Disagree on his burst. He fires off the ball and can penetrate. Not Michael Bennett level yet, but he's going to cause problems and disrupt a lot of plays.

He also holds up well against the run so while he's not a traditional 5-technique, his talent and upside is big enough to put him there and let him make plays.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

GSH_34 · May 28, 2016

The key is Fangio and this isn't a square peg/round hole situation with Bullard. Give him talent and he'll find a way to use it.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Why did they slide?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Formerly Hawkeye

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Dongbears is THE worst

New member

Moderator

Bully Mod

Well-known member

Minister of Archaic Titillations

Minister of Archaic Titillations

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

New member