Maybe We Should Stand Still at the Dead Line

TC in Mississippi

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DJMoore_is_fat said:
Yeah, I don't think Torres, Happ and Vogelbach gets us Miller. Hope I'm wrong though.
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I don't either but the reasons are either that someone else does something stupid (Arroyo/Beede, Gallo, etc.) or the simple fact that the Yankees don't have to move him. They don't need the salary relief, he's very consistent and they'll have opportunities to move him after this deadline passes in the offseason or next year. They want to get fat off Miller and they have no obvious time/money constraints. Not a really good opportunity for those wishing to acquire him.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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Oh Theo's definitely capable of acquiring whatever we need. I also think he's not short sighted enough to jeopardize our future for one single year. But as others have mentioned, Torres is blocked by Russell, Voglebach is blocked by Rizzo, etc.

So we have some pieces we can part with. Just not sure if it's enough to land Miller. And parting with Babe Schwarber is completely out of the question (unless we're getting Chris Sale). Schwarber is a 40 home run guy.
 

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DJMoore_is_fat said:
Yeah, I don't think Torres, Happ and Vogelbach gets us Miller. Hope I'm wrong though.
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I don't get why anyone wants to trade Torres for a reliever even as good as Miller is. People seemingly have no idea how good he is at his age. He's hitting .268/.350/.424 with 9 HRs in A+ at 19 over 345 PAs. Now keep in mind the florida state league is a pitcher favored league. Then compare that to what Russell hit in A+ at 19 which was .275/.377/.508 with 17 over 504 PAs. He was in the A's system then which plays in the california league which is the third best minor league for runs/g. As you can see, the florida state league is the toughest in the minors in terms of hitting.

Now if you want to argue Russell was the better prospect then, fine. The only point I am trying to make is that they are relatively close in terms of production at that age. Russell ended up being a top 10 prospect. Trading a top 10 prospect for any reliever is insane and Torres very well might be a top 15ish prospect by the start of next year when you factor in graduation of prospects and how great he's played this year.

I'd argue that Torres is the player cubs fans should want to take Zobrist's spot in a few years at 2B assuming Baez doesn't or he plays 3B. But even if you don't think that he has a long term place on the cubs that's little reason to trade him for a reliever. He should headline a package to acquire a young starter.
 
SilenceS

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DJMoore_is_fat said:
Let me ask you a question. After Warren's solid start against the Reds, do you think we would have won if Cahil didn't come out of the bullpen to serve up a 3-run homer?
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I dont know. The game changed there. Did that suck? Yes. Cahill also has under a 3 ERA in bullpen. He has been quite solid.
 
chibears55

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SilenceS said:
ESPN Stats & Info Verified account ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 12h12 hours ago

The loss for the Cubs snaps a 93-game win streak when leading entering the 9th inning, dating back to last season


This is why I laugh at people's memory.
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I saw this earlier. ..
I thought it was a typo but figured that they ended up winning games after a save was blown in 9th..
But yea 93 games is crazy good.

Ive been a Strop and Rondon backer since last year when most on here was calling for Strop head.

I just think it would keep them fresh and benefit the team, especially once the playoffs start if they had another late innings guy for the 8th and 9th.
Whether it Miller or someone like him.

Im good with Cahill, wood, and even edwards as the 6th and 7th inning arms.


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SilenceS

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chibears55 said:
I saw this earlier. ..
I thought it was a typo but figured that they ended up winning games after a save was blown in 9th..
But yea 93 games is crazy good.

Ive been a Strop and Rondon backer since last year when most on here was calling for Strop head.

I just think it would keep them fresh and benefit the team, especially once the playoffs start if they had another late innings guy for the 8th and 9th.
Whether it Miller or someone like him.

Im good with Cahill, wood, and even edwards as the 6th and 7th inning arms.


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I dont disagree. Im just not for Miller asking price.
 
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SilenceS said:
I dont disagree. Im just not for Miller asking price.
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I don't think anyone here does. I'm sick of the Yankees flaunting themselves. They always believe they have leverage...but in this case, they do not. Miller is a good player but others are available that can do the job nearly as well.
 
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Diehardfan said:
I don't think anyone here does. I'm sick of the Yankees flaunting themselves. They always believe they have leverage...but in this case, they do not. Miller is a good player but others are available that can do the job nearly as well.
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As long as there are 5 teams in play for Miller they have leverage
 

TC in Mississippi

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Omeletpants said:
As long as there are 5 teams in play for Miller they have leverage
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It's not just that there are multiple teams involved it's that they don't have to get rid of him right now. They're waiting for that stupid offer and in the era of Shelby Miller or Ken Giles for a treasure trove of prospects I'm not betting against it.
 
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TC in Mississippi said:
It's not just that there are multiple teams involved it's that they don't have to get rid of him right now. They're waiting for that stupid offer and in the era of Shelby Miller or Ken Giles for a treasure trove of prospects I'm not betting against it.
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Exactly, Miller is about their only proven and tradeable asset. We are not going to steal that just because our fans think they are smarter than Cashman
 
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ZAN said:
No one (edit: with a brain) is giving up a #1 prospect for a middle reliever, even with control. The Yankees can get bent.
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You say that until someone else pays that price or it's the 7th game of the WS and we need a stopper.
 
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Omeletpants said:
You say that until someone else pays that price or it's the 7th game of the WS and we need a stopper.
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He is neither a stopper (SP who stops losing streaks) or a closer (9th inning guy).
 

TC in Mississippi

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The one team I don't want to see get Miller is SF. That's a frightening proposition and depending on health could immediately make them the World Series favorite. As it stands now I like the Cubs overall depth better but when both teams are healthy I think they're almost at the same talent level. Make is so nobody can score in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings and SF is a playoff beast. Frankly I don't care if Washington gets him because either way they Cubs are a better team with a better manager.
 

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Are we witnessing the biggest collapse with the Cubs since Theo's Red Sox self destructed in the chicken and beer season?

I hate to say it, but we're in big, big trouble.


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CSF77

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No need to push the panic button.

What they need is Fowler back to start. Biggest need.

2nd is replacing Richards's role in the pen. I liked the whole Smyly idea from Beck on the trade thread. He would fit into that role well and becomes a potential long term starter.

3rd is getting Nathen up soon. He should stabilize the 7th with Smyly adding in. Wood Edwards and Cahill round it out.

The rotation is not perfect at all. The O was glossing it over in the early stages of the season. With the support lessening getting Fowler back become the #1 priority with the MR solidified
 
CSF77

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TC in Mississippi said:
A stopper is an ace level starting pitcher who "stops" losing streaks.
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Now you are looking for a arguement.

Those terms are not even real terms. The word ace is slang. Most teams say who is pitching today is their ace. Stopper. What is that suppose to mean anyways? A guy that stops something. So does that mean stopping a team from scoring runs? Like no IR or a guy that excelles in high pressure situations. Sure why not. He stopped something. A starter that comes in a stops a losing streak. But that could happen with Lester today. That makes him a stopper. Hendricks won his games recently. Does that make him a stopper to? Or a blip because they went to losing right after.

So the term stopper is suggestive if anything.
 

TC in Mississippi

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CSF77 said:
Now you are looking for a arguement.

Those terms are not even real terms. The word ace is slang. Most teams say who is pitching today is their ace. Stopper. What is that suppose to mean anyways? A guy that stops something. So does that mean stopping a team from scoring runs? Like no IR or a guy that excelles in high pressure situations. Sure why not. He stopped something. A starter that comes in a stops a losing streak. But that could happen with Lester today. That makes him a stopper. Hendricks won his games recently. Does that make him a stopper to? Or a blip because they went to losing right after.

So the term stopper is suggestive if anything.
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Yes, they are both baseball slang but for 50 plus years your "stopper" was always your best starting pitcher. People knew it, people understood it. In the last decade or so it has been used interchangeably with closer which is wrong IMHO.
 
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