Are Fox and Pace the right guys for this?

WindyCity · Sep 26, 2016

Pace should fire Fox, hire a play calling HC, and draft a top QB.

That buys him time and may get the franchise moving in a direction that is not into the toilet.

Matt Suhey · Sep 26, 2016

I have not given up on Pace but have on Fox. However at the time of their hires I liked the Pace hire and did not like the Fox hire. I liked that Pace was considered a young cutting edge exec on the rise. I did not like that Fox was your typical defensive type HC who IMO reflected way too much of Lovie's main fault being a lack of a vision for how to develop a great offense. The Bears had a chance to hire two of the best offensive minds in the current NFL. Gase and Arians and passed on both. This IMO is the result. Unless you have a truly dominant defense in this era of the NFL you cant expect to half ass it with an offensive vision that lacks a truly quality plan for how to score points in the modern NFL era and expect to really succeed. Gase and Arians have that but the McCaskeys dont get this so we are still floundering.

Matt Suhey · Sep 26, 2016

WindyCity said:
Pace should fire Fox, hire a play calling HC, and draft a top QB.

That buys him time and may get the franchise moving in a direction that is not into the toilet.

I have been posting on this board for a long time this team needed a man with an offensive plan for our team to be truly successful. Arians and Gase could have been those guys but the Bears org blew it.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 26, 2016

Unfortunately, I don't think Pace has really been running things. I think he has probably been railroaded by Fox a number of times.

thenewguy · Sep 26, 2016

Matt Suhey said:
I have been posting on this board for a long time this team needed a man with an offensive plan for our team to be truly successful. Arians and Gase could have been those guys but the Bears org blew it.

Hue Jackson was another one I liked. We'll probably never know how good Jackson and Gase are given those two dumpster fires of organizations are probably worse than the Bears. At least those teams are competitive in their games.

The NFL is geared towards offense. I would even consider giving McDaniels and Haley another chance. Two of the best offensive minds in the game and many coaches don't get it right until their second time.

Desperado34 · Sep 26, 2016

airtime143 said:
When he does finally pull the trigger on one, he had better strike gold or he is done for in chicago.

For his own security, he should have done it year one and maybe gotten himself a second bite at the apple... but putting it off leaves him in do or die territory. Especially with this season.

I'm still laughing you think Jay is the issue with the franchise.

onebud34 · Sep 26, 2016

Desperado34 said:
I'm still laughing you think Jay is the issue with the franchise.

He's the issue with the team

airtime143 · Sep 26, 2016

Desperado34 said:
I'm still laughing you think Jay is the issue with the franchise.

Is he the reason they are 0-3? Nope.
Has he ever been a dependable, mistake free performer? Nope.
Is it significantly more likely the Bears will fare better down the road with a decent performer at the position? Yes.
Has Jay ever given any indication he would rise above mediocre? Nope.

Look, I know it is sad that your man crush is a failure. But you need to let go. The book is closed on this guy.

remydat · Sep 26, 2016

airtime143 said:
When he does finally pull the trigger on one, he had better strike gold or he is done for in chicago.

For his own security, he should have done it year one and maybe gotten himself a second bite at the apple... but putting it off leaves him in do or die territory. Especially with this season.

Well I think it was always going to be do or die when they took one and I think taking one sooner probably would have started the clock sooner in terms of how long they have to turn it around.

I suspect they want to be further along in the rebuild before introducing a new QB into the mix.

Desperado34 · Sep 26, 2016

airtime143 said:
Is he the reason they are 0-3? Nope.
Has he ever been a dependable, mistake free performer? Nope.
Is it significantly more likely the Bears will fare better down the road with a decent performer at the position? Yes.
Has Jay ever given any indication he would rise above mediocre? Nope.

Look, I know it is sad that your man crush is a failure. But you need to let go. The book is closed on this guy.

lol
Ok he's not going anywhere unless he retires. Keep holding the hope tho! Like the last few seasons.

This team is extremely dysfunctional and I'm shocked they are as bad as they are. Fox is gonna be on the hot seat.

Pegger · Sep 26, 2016

legendxofxlink said:
Enjoy it man. You're team killed it against 3 different teams going into the bye with not many big playmakers on offense or defense. Doug Pederson looks like a great offensive mind and you have Les Snead kicking himself and Fisher in the nuts so far. Sure you will regress once you get into divisional games, but so far it's looking fantastic.

I think the NFCE is still horrible, so I'm not to worried there. Here's my thoughts on each team:

NYG - Their D is much improved, but Eli will still lose games on his own. This past week's game against Washington was a prime example. he had two red zone picks in the 4th quarter and they lost by 2 points. They will look like a good team, but just remind you that they definitely are not.

Wash - They can't beat a good team. Here's some interesting stats for you - A Kirk Cousins lead NFL team has never beaten a team that ended the season with a record greater than .500. Add this with his high completion % and the story is clear. He will check down a lot and when you are against teams that typically beat themselves a missed tackle will be the difference maker. When he's pushed to actually make the plays needed to win, he turns the ball over.

Dallas - They have no pass rush and I think the 'best OL in the league' has taken a step back. Romo or Prescott, it doesn't matter.

It's early but the Eagles have a shot at 9+ wins, which is something I never would have thought coming into this season.

remydat · Sep 26, 2016

WindyCity said:
Pace should fire Fox, hire a play calling HC, and draft a top QB.

That buys him time and may get the franchise moving in a direction that is not into the toilet.

I doubt the Bears fire Fox with so many years left on his deal when they just had to fire Trest and Angelo before their deals were up.

I think Fox will end up hiring his own replacement. He picks good coaches generally and last year just ended up picking Gase a bit too early.

I suspect he will replace Loggains with an OC that is head coach material and once that OC develops a young QB, if he starts getting HC offers then Fox will get fired in favor of that guy.

Think Lovie and the Bucs. Once the OC showed he was good for Winston's development and started getting HC offers, Louie was dumped.

airtime143 · Sep 26, 2016

remydat said:
Well I think it was always going to be do or die when they took one and I think taking one sooner probably would have started the clock sooner in terms of how long they have to turn it around.

I suspect they want to be further along in the rebuild before introducing a new QB into the mix.

I disagree- I would think a year one QB in the first 3 rounds would have been a wise addition to the team... especially since clausen was #2 at the time. He could have drafted a "backup" and seen if he struck gold. If not, that pick would be looked at as filling a backup need, no more no less.

As far as waiting on the QB... the learning curve is realistically 3 years before you can make a really good guess as to what you do or do not have. After watching the Lovie smith bears squander a great defense due to lack of offensive production, I am more on the side of get the QB first and backfill afterwards.
A solid QB can lock the position down for 15 years- plenty of time to build a team around him.
If he fails and they go 1-15, well, try again.

airtime143 · Sep 26, 2016

Desperado34 said:
lol
Ok he's not going anywhere unless he retires. Keep holding the hope tho! Like the last few seasons.

He is gone after this year. Without a doubt.

Desperado34 said:
This team is extremely dysfunctional and I'm shocked they are as bad as they are. Fox is gonna be on the hot seat.

Fox is absolutely hideous thus far. It is pretty damning that in year 2, there is not a single solitary aspect of this teams game that we can say is solid.
Everything looks bad, and heading towards worse.

Jailbreak · Sep 26, 2016

Pegger said:
I think the NFCE is still horrible, so I'm not to worried there. Here's my thoughts on each team:

NYG - Their D is much improved, but Eli will still lose games on his own. This past week's game against Washington was a prime example. he had two red zone picks in the 4th quarter and they lost by 2 points. They will look like a good team, but just remind you that they definitely are not.

Wash - They can't beat a good team. Here's some interesting stats for you - A Kirk Cousins lead NFL team has never beaten a team that ended the season with a record greater than .500. Add this with his high completion % and the story is clear. He will check down a lot and when you are against teams that typically beat themselves a missed tackle will be the difference maker. When he's pushed to actually make the plays needed to win, he turns the ball over.

Dallas - They have no pass rush and I think the 'best OL in the league' has taken a step back. Romo or Prescott, it doesn't matter.

It's early but the Eagles have a shot at 9+ wins, which is something I never would have thought coming into this season.

Yes, Peg. I don't think the Iggles are going anywhere. It's nice to have that divisional competition. Doesn't really matter who the Bears are playing right now.

edit: meaning the Eagles are going to destroy their division and maybe for quite a while. Not trying to get your hopes up too high, lol.

run and shoot · Sep 26, 2016

onebud34 said:
I think Ginny & Co. will give Pace a chance at a QB before they jettison him & Fox.

The fact that there wasn't a QB drafted this year is scary though, maybe that is the front office playing nice for Jay's last year (at least let's fucking hope so).

onebud34 said:
the front office playing nice for Jay's last year

now that's scary.

run and shoot · Sep 26, 2016

remydat said:
I doubt the Bears fire Fox with so many years left on his deal when they just had to fire Trest and Angelo before their deals were up.

I think Fox will end up hiring his own replacement. He picks good coaches generally and last year just ended up picking Gase a bit too early.

I suspect he will replace Loggains with an OC that is head coach material and once that OC develops a young QB, if he starts getting HC offers then Fox will get fired in favor of that guy.

Think Lovie and the Bucs. Once the OC showed he was good for Winston's development and started getting HC offers, Louie was dumped.

OT......what they did 2 Smith was b.s.

mcmahon85 · Sep 26, 2016

legendxofxlink said:
Eagles rebuilt their team in 1 offseason. You could say they even lost talent on paper from last year, in a year which took them to week 6 to get the 3 wins they have now. Eagles now LEAD the league in Scoring on both sides of the ball... Good coaching changes everything. Bears don't have it.

Agree 100% I was going to pretty much say the same thing.

remydat · Sep 26, 2016

airtime143 said:
I disagree- I would think a year one QB in the first 3 rounds would have been a wise addition to the team... especially since clausen was #2 at the time. He could have drafted a "backup" and seen if he struck gold. If not, that pick would be looked at as filling a backup need, no more no less.

As far as waiting on the QB... the learning curve is realistically 3 years before you can make a really good guess as to what you do or do not have. After watching the Lovie smith bears squander a great defense due to lack of offensive production, I am more on the side of get the QB first and backfill afterwards.
A solid QB can lock the position down for 15 years- plenty of time to build a team around him.
If he fails and they go 1-15, well, try again.

We don't have a great defense. All that would happen if we drafted a QB last year is that he would likely get killed if forced into duty given the shit OL.

Not to mention Jay wasn't going anywhere until after this year given the cap hit and I want no part of a young QB coming in with Jay around because it would just be a circus. People would be clamoring for him to play after the first Cutler turnover and it simply wouldn't be a good situation for a young QB to come into.

Next year Jay can be cut with minimal cap hit and we can start fresh with a new QB with no baggage and with Hoyer or someone that knows the kid is the future as competition and a mentor.

Having said that if a QB you love is there then you take him. If not I don't think you draft one just to draft one and then introduce them into this shit show.

remydat · Sep 26, 2016

run and shoot said:
OT......what they did 2 Smith was b.s.

Not really. Sucked for Lovie but Winston's development is more important than Lovie's hurt feelings. Continuity is important for a young QB and if they felt losing the OC was going to stunt Winston's growth then they made the right call.

Are Fox and Pace the right guys for this?

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