Things that have become clearer about the Bears off season

TL1961 · Jan 22, 2017

MojoRisin said:
This is spot on. You have to at least try. Heck, Cleveland at least tries. It's been 77 years since we last drafted a franchise QB and the law of averages says we'll get lucky eventually. Hell, the Cubs won a World Series so hell can freeze over. It seems like no time is ever right to some fans to swing for the fences to try to fix the most important position on an NFL team. So many even applaud the mediocrity.

Let's see....
"Cleveland at least tries".
Cleveland takes the very approach some here want to take, which is to overdraft a guy simply because they don't have one.

"The law of averages says we'll get lucky".
The single most flawed logic of the offseason. Draft ME then. If it's simply a matter of "we're due", essentially you're saying it doesn't matter if we draft a guy not good enough.

"Hell, the Cubs won a worlds series, so hell can freeze over".
The Cubs won a WS when they finally hired a GM who stopped trying to "get lucky" and go all in with poor teams. Selecting the wrong guy, simply because you haven't had the right guy, is not a wise approach.

I am NOT saying not to draft a QB. I am saying this is the worst logic for doing so.

IF a QB worth the #3 was available, of course we should take him. But it does not appear that guy will be there. Drafting "just anyone" because we are "due to get lucky" is a sure way to fail.

bearmick · Jan 22, 2017

ijustposthere said:
For the record, I'm for taking a defender first because I think it's possible to get both. That said, I won't be upset if we take a QB.

Honestly even if Allen or Adams or whoever pans out, their position is so irrelevant in comparison to QB that I just don't think it's worth pissing around and trying to get cute. If Pace likes one of these top 3 QBs I hope he doesn't over think it, and just gets him at 3.

If I'm going to for sure get the player I want at QB or a defensive position, but know if I shoot for both I might only get one, I'm getting the QB every time and I'll compromise on the defender.

As I said in another thread, to give an example of this, I would far rather have Eddie Goldman and a legit QB than have Gerald McCoy and a lesser QB.

bearmick · Jan 22, 2017

jts1207 said:
This is spot on. People can't grasp this concept. There is no QB worth 3.

It's not that they can't grasp it, it's that they disagree with it.

ijustposthere · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
Honestly even if Allen or Adams or whoever pans out, their position is so irrelevant in comparison to QB that I just don't think it's worth pissing around and trying to get cute. If Pace likes one of these top 3 QBs I hope he doesn't over think it, and just gets him at 3.

If I'm going to for sure get the player I want at QB or a defensive position, but know if I shoot for both I might only get one, I'm getting the QB every time and I'll compromise on the defender.

As I said in another thread, to give an example of this, I would far rather have Eddie Goldman and a legit QB than have Gerald McCoy and a lesser QB.

What if Pace has said defensive player ranked higher than the QB? What if Pace's board has these guys falling far enough to be able to acquire them later? I'm certainly not against a QB going at 3, but I don't think Pace would take one if he has someone else valued higher.

Washington · Jan 22, 2017

TL1961 said:
Let's see....
"Cleveland at least tries".
Cleveland takes the very approach some here want to take, which is to overdraft a guy simply because they don't have one.

"The law of averages says we'll get lucky".
The single most flawed logic of the offseason. Draft ME then. If it's simply a matter of "we're due", essentially you're saying it doesn't matter if we draft a guy not good enough.

"Hell, the Cubs won a worlds series, so hell can freeze over".
The Cubs won a WS when they finally hired a GM who stopped trying to "get lucky" and go all in with poor teams. Selecting the wrong guy, simply because you haven't had the right guy, is not a wise approach.

I am NOT saying not to draft a QB. I am saying this is the worst logic for doing so.

IF a QB worth the #3 was available, of course we should take him. But it does not appear that guy will be there. Drafting "just anyone" because we are "due to get lucky" is a sure way to fail.

Well, with your breakdown, my logic is surely flawed. However, I'm not saying to take a QB @ #3 regardless of all scenarios. I just don't want fear of failure to be in play and I read that here all the time that there is too much risk in drafting a QB high.

Here is how I feel. If Pace thinks Watson, Kizer, or Trubisky can be a franchise game changing QB, then he should draft him regardless of the ranking. If not, go to plan B. However, plan B needs to include at least one QB this year in the draft even if it is some form a reach. If you go by your board and BPA 100% of the time, a QB may never align and you will never be a winner. Eventually, you will need to gamble a little bit. We've done shit in this area over the last decade plus and our record and current situation reflects our lack of trying.

BaBaBlacksheep · Jan 22, 2017

-Cago34- said:
It really depends on Paces' big board. I hear what you're saying but I'd be against reaching for a QB just because we need one, especially at the expense of passing on a true blue chip player. We'll never know, but unless Paces' big board has a QB ranked top 12-14, then I couldn't fault him for passing on one at 3. When you have a glaring need often times you have to and should reach, but only so far, imo.

How you got through this post with out mentioning Brees is beyond me. :lol:

bearmick · Jan 22, 2017

ijustposthere said:
What if Pace has said defensive player ranked higher than the QB? What if Pace's board has these guys falling far enough to be able to acquire them later? I'm certainly not against a QB going at 3, but I don't think Pace would take one if he has someone else valued higher.

Depends what you mean by ranked higher. QB transcends BPA. I saw the other some guy had Watson as a 6.3 and Allen as a 6.6. Based on strict BPA, Allen is the higher ranked player, but QB is too important to settle for strict BPA, because the value of the position is so much more impactful. That's what I was getting at with the bed and lampshade analogy if you saw that.

to put it simply, I think it's worth compromising on a defender to take a shot at a potential impact QB.

DC · Jan 22, 2017

Beast15 said:
I agree with this.I just wish the bears had said QB on roster, because I would LOVE to see one of hooker or adams in the secondary

Let's get a QB at 3 then trade back into the top 10 and get the S of choice. Trade this year's 2nd and 3rd round pick and give up next year's #1. Who cares? Get the leader of our O and D for the next 10 years.

gallagher · Jan 22, 2017

The only mistake in drafting a QB is if you dont believe in him. If it is Watson, Trubisky or Kizer at 3, Mahomes or Webb at 36, or whoever you like at whatever pick you take him, then so be it. But you have to do your homework on the QB and believe that he will develop into a player that will take your team a step forward.

QBs dont play ST, only one sees the field at a time and if you are lucky, your backups only come on to kneel it down at the end of a game. When you commit resources to a rookie QB, he has to be a guy you are willing to give time to develop, however he needs it. Do I hope Pace picks Kizer at 3? Sure I do. But if Pace doesnt think he will bring the team forward then I hope he passes on him. If he doesnt believe that any QB available at a later pick has what it takes to win games for us, then I hope he doesnt draft a guy just to roll the dice.

This is a game for the fans, and we can speculate all we want about whatever player and it ultimately wont mean shit. But Pace has to believe his job hangs in the balance every year until he establishes a perennial contender.

TerryF · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
I saw the other some guy had Watson as a 6.3 and Allen as a 6.6

if Pace and his scouts agree with those grades then i want no part of Watson or Allen. i hope they'll have on their board players ranked higher than 7 and one of them will be the #3 pick

ZOMBIE@CTESPN · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
Honestly even if Allen or Adams or whoever pans out, their position is so irrelevant in comparison to QB that I just don't think it's worth pissing around and trying to get cute. If Pace likes one of these top 3 QBs I hope he doesn't over think it, and just gets him at 3.

If I'm going to for sure get the player I want at QB or a defensive position, but know if I shoot for both I might only get one, I'm getting the QB every time and I'll compromise on the defender.

As I said in another thread, to give an example of this, I would far rather have Eddie Goldman and a legit QB than have Gerald McCoy and a lesser QB.

Can't say it any better then this. I hope people actually read this. You can't be scared to take a swing at a qb. You have to keep going for one until you have one. And even if you have one developing one on the side is a wise move that if we did that here we wouldn't be such beggars. Our last big investment in the position was a 4th rounder with orton and a 1 on grossman. It's pretty pathetic

Dagman310 · Jan 22, 2017

TL1961 said:
Wishing a QB worth the #3 overall pick was there doesn't make it so.

I don't think fans who want to draft the best player available are stupid. IF a QB was available worth the #3, then take him. But drafting an EJ Manuel or Geno Smith because QB is an important position will not make it a wise pick.

Every single year, some team(s) take a QB in the first because they don't have a good QB, and every year there are busts in the first for that reason.

That's not to say other players can't or don't bust. But to suggest the Bears reach simply because they have no QB is a poor way to build a team.

Well said, exactly right.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

run and shoot · Jan 22, 2017

Quote Originally Posted by Les Grossman View Post
Totally disagree. These are not Christian Ponder prospects out there in the upcoming draft

FireFox said:
I would argue that DeShaun Watson is.

WestsideResider · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
Finally a chance to take a shot at a potential impact talent at the most important position (by far - nothing else is in the same stratosphere in terms of importance) and half the fans are wanting to pass on the chance, and want to get some defensive player. Sometimes I think this fan base deserves all the frustration and disappointment it gets.

This board makes me think this daily.

JoJoBoxer · Jan 22, 2017

Matt Suhey said:
This is quite a legitimate opinion. This is all a crapshoot based on opinions. Months ago I was certain a Jon Allen Pat Mahomes draft was the only way to go now after seriously reconsidering all the options I believe Trubisky should be the first option. Kizer could very well turn out to be worthy of the Bears number 3 pick. Anyone who in this draft scout HC fan etc who says they know for certain which is the best way to go is full of crap. The key to picking a QB in this draft perhaps most drafts will be the interview. Thanks to Gruden we all get a chance to see their personalities. Last year Wentz and Prescott were the best at them and that litmus test proved to be quite accurate.

If the Bears pick Kizer I will not bitch about it and root like hell for the guy hoping for the best because we have no real choice and it could all work out for the best.

I am fine with that so long the Bears do not shy away from drafting a QB high in 2018 if the 2017 season falls apart because they just drafted their "franchise" qb. Perhaps, next year will be the year where there is a true franchise QB at the top of the draft. Better to have two potential franchise QBs in the system than to have one and find out he is not worth it once the chance to pick up a franchise QB is lost because we traded him for picks in 2018.

Also, if we have two really good QBs, we can trade the second for a king's ransom.

JoJoBoxer · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
I really don't think it's a reach. It's an opportunity. The media says the QB class is bad every year. The top 3 this year is actually pretty good. Better than last year. Assuming they're going to be EJ Manuel is irrational.

When do you think the Bears are going to get a better chance than this? With even average injury luck, and with the amount of $$ they have to invest in FA, this is more like a .500 team than a 3-win team. Do you really think they're going to bet a better prospect with the 17th pick next year?

You have to try. We never do, and we pay the price. 5-techs and safeties don't win Superbowls. This is a shot at finally getting an impact player at QB and people want to just let it pass. I just can't get my head around it.

How about a possible scenario for you?

At the end of the Bears' scouting right before the draft, all of the QBs are basically rated the same in their books (right around rated the 15th pick).

Since there is no clear #1 QB in the Bears books when they get to their pick, would you rather pick a QB at #3 or trade to something like #8, get an extra pick while still being able to pick one of their top rated QBs?

Noonthirtyjoe · Jan 22, 2017

Paces thoughts on the top 3 QBs coming out will be known before the draft. If he trades for one or signs a FA QB, we are not using the 3 pick on QB.

DaaBears · Jan 22, 2017

I am glad people are jumping on Trubisky, lets just pray he is there at 3. I really am not interested in the other 2 guys. Not my problem, I have wanted to address the QB situation for a good 7 years.

bearmick · Jan 22, 2017

JoJoBoxer said:
How about a possible scenario for you?

At the end of the Bears' scouting right before the draft, all of the QBs are basically rated the same in their books (right around rated the 15th pick).

Since there is no clear #1 QB in the Bears books when they get to their pick, would you rather pick a QB at #3 or trade to something like #8, get an extra pick while still being able to pick one of their top rated QBs?

I'd do it if it was for sure we'd get the QB but I think it's too important to gamble on. Whatever we'd be looking to get with the extra pick, could we get a fairly comparable player with our own 2nd anyway?

If they feel the QB they want is a real franchise opportunity, I'd rather they just take him and look to continue their solid 2nd round drafting (Goldman, Whitehair) in the next round.

It's a deep DB class; there should be some really good corners and safeties on the board at 35. I even saw a mock where Cam Robinson fell to the 2nd. I think he'd make a terrific RT in the NFL.

JoJoBoxer · Jan 22, 2017

bearmick said:
I'd do it if it was for sure we'd get the QB but I think it's too important to gamble on. Whatever we'd be looking to get with the extra pick, could we get a fairly comparable player with our own 2nd anyway?

If they feel the QB they want is a real franchise opportunity, I'd rather they just take him and look to continue their solid 2nd round drafting (Goldman, Whitehair) in the next round.

It's a deep DB class; there should be some really good corners and safeties on the board at 35. I even saw a mock where Cam Robinson fell to the 2nd. I think he'd make a terrific RT in the NFL.

Oops. I wasn't clear.

Would you rather draft a QB (all being equal at around 15) or trade down to 6 to 8 (or where you believe at least one QB will still be available) while getting extra picks?

As you mentioned above, with the 2nd round pick we might get lucky and get Cam Robinson who would be excellent for Howard's running while we can possibly end up with Watson at 6(?), and have 2 3rd (trade down) and 4th rounders for DB help. Moveover; we would still be getting the chance at the franchise QB while it being less of a reach.

Things that have become clearer about the Bears off season

Well-known member

Captain Objectivity

Captain Objectivity

Message Board Hero

My favorite teams

Well-known member

Half Mod.

Captain Objectivity

Minister of Archaic Titillations

Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

My favorite teams

New member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

My favorite teams

Bro idk

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

CCS Donator

Captain Objectivity

Well-known member