Bort Report: Official Scouting Report on This Years Quarterback Class

Les Grossman

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I don't really get the evaluation that Kaaya might be to unathletic to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think athleticism for a QB is the least important trait. There's been plenty successful "statue" QB's in the NFL.

For some strange reason, Kaaya strikes me as a sleeper who may end up the best of the bunch this year. I don't know shit though.
 

HansGruber

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Watson is the best QB of this crop and its not even close

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rawdawg

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I don't really get the evaluation that Kaaya might be to unathletic to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think athleticism for a QB is the least important trait. There's been plenty successful "statue" QB's in the NFL.

For some strange reason, Kaaya strikes me as a sleeper who may end up the best of the bunch this year. I don't know shit though.

Don't have to be super athletic as a QB, true. But that's why I always bring up guys like Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Dan Marino when talking about Kaaya. Not that he's a Hall of Fame level talent like those guys, just that those guys are also statues, but they have persevered for so long because of their ability to feel the pressure coming, avoid sacks, and maybe most importantly, avoid big hits. There's a reason those guys never missed games here and there during seasons. Kaaya gets drilled pretty consistently, even when not being sacked. He won't be able to make it very long in the NFL if he takes the same type of hits at the next level. Granted his OL will almost certainly be better in the NFL, but he will face better pass rushers and more exotic blitzes and DCs that realize he's a sitting duck back there.
 

laputan

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I don't really get the evaluation that Kaaya might be to unathletic to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think athleticism for a QB is the least important trait. There's been plenty successful "statue" QB's in the NFL.

For some strange reason, Kaaya strikes me as a sleeper who may end up the best of the bunch this year. I don't know shit though.

No one knows, but the fact that Kaaya was groomed to be a quarterback from an early age and has spent hours in QB camps makes me think he is someone who is already at or near his ceiling and is playing around physical limitations.
 

rawdawg

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No one knows, but the fact that Kaaya was groomed to be a quarterback from an early age and has spent hours in QB camps makes me think he is someone who is already at or near his ceiling and is playing around physical limitations.

Sounds like the descriptions of Peyton and Eli Manning.
 

Enasic

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Watson is the best QB of this crop and its not even close

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Monsieur Tirets

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No one knows, but the fact that Kaaya was groomed to be a quarterback from an early age and has spent hours in QB camps makes me think he is someone who is already at or near his ceiling and is playing around physical limitations.

thats actually one of the reasons my opnion of him has changed. thats exactly what it takes to be a legit nfl QB capable of reading Ds, making calls and playing the game at the nfl level. thats why prospects that ran simple Os their whole career almost never cut it at the next level. its not something you can just learn when the times comes, its something legit QBs developed over years and years of playing the position.

also if you noticed, most of the great QBs have/had physical limitations to over come.
 

run and shoot

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Don't have to be super athletic as a QB, true. But that's why I always bring up guys like Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Dan Marino when talking about Kaaya. Not that he's a Hall of Fame level talent like those guys, just that those guys are also statues, but they have persevered for so long because of their ability to feel the pressure coming, avoid sacks, and maybe most importantly, avoid big hits. There's a reason those guys never missed games here and there during seasons. Kaaya gets drilled pretty consistently, even when not being sacked. He won't be able to make it very long in the NFL if he takes the same type of hits at the next level. Granted his OL will almost certainly be better in the NFL, but he will face better pass rushers and more exotic blitzes and DCs that realize he's a sitting duck back there.


Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Dan Marino ......had good pass blocking OL's
 

run and shoot

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I guess you don't understand the term. Gunslingers think they can make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

It's a Qb that likes to put the ball up. Gunslinger doesn't mean hurting ur team. The media miss- used the term " Gunslinger" to cover Farve's f-ups.


What is Gunslinger?

This is a quarterback who plays the position in a decisive, aggressive manner. In order to be a gunslinger you must have the ability to throw deep, accurate passes.
 

rawdawg

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Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Dan Marino ......had good pass blocking OL's

This is pretty hard to quantify because part of my argument is that those guys didn't get sacked because of their ability to avoid pressure or get rid of the ball. Of course, that means they don't get sacked much......which would, in turn, mean they must have had good pass blocking O-lines. And I know Pro Bowls aren't the end all-be all, but other than Jeff Saturday (and we can all agree C isn't a key pass blocking position) Peyton had only 3 pro bowl seasons from any of his OTs or OGs in Indy, all from Tarik Glenn from 04-06. Eli had 4 pro bowls from non-centers all from Diehl and Snee as guards. Brady had Mankins, but hasn't had a PB OT since Matt Light. Marino did have Richmond Webb at OT, but a bunch of crap elsewhere on the OL.

Basically, I'm saying these QBs didn't get sacked because of their amazing abilities. You're saying they had good pass blocking OLs. There's no way to prove who is right here. But I don't think any of these guys had great pass blocking OLs for most of their careers.
 

Bearly

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I don't really get the evaluation that Kaaya might be to unathletic to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think athleticism for a QB is the least important trait. There's been plenty successful "statue" QB's in the NFL.

For some strange reason, Kaaya strikes me as a sleeper who may end up the best of the bunch this year. I don't know shit though.

He may be but it stops him from going early and will need more protection. Something Pace seems to understand.
 

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Don't have to be super athletic as a QB, true. But that's why I always bring up guys like Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Dan Marino when talking about Kaaya. Not that he's a Hall of Fame level talent like those guys, just that those guys are also statues, but they have persevered for so long because of their ability to feel the pressure coming, avoid sacks, and maybe most importantly, avoid big hits. There's a reason those guys never missed games here and there during seasons. Kaaya gets drilled pretty consistently, even when not being sacked. He won't be able to make it very long in the NFL if he takes the same type of hits at the next level. Granted his OL will almost certainly be better in the NFL, but he will face better pass rushers and more exotic blitzes and DCs that realize he's a sitting duck back there.

2015 Brad Kaaya:

11.8 percent of Kaaya’s dropbacks under pressure resulted in sacks, compared to 9.5 percent for Watson. But both of these rates put Watson and Kaaya in an upper tier of quarterbacks in terms ability to avoid the sack. To put those numbers into perspective, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield—whose mobility is much closer to Watson’s than Kaaya’s—was sacked on 24.4 percent of his pressured dropbacks.
Due to his lack of mobility, Kaaya’s sack avoidance might actually be more impressive. His ability to move within the pocket is elite, especially considering his age.

http://www.cfbfilmroom.com/2016/06/02/brad-kaaya-versus-deshaun-watson-advanced-stats-breakdown/
 

Bearly

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It's a Qb that likes to put the ball up. Gunslinger doesn't mean hurting ur team. The media miss- used the term " Gunslinger" to cover Farve's f-ups.


What is Gunslinger?

This is a quarterback who plays the position in a decisive, aggressive manner. In order to be a gunslinger you must have the ability to throw deep, accurate passes.
It's term used in all forms of life.
" a person who acts in an aggressive and decisive manner, especially in business or politics, as an investor who takes large risks in seeking large, quick gains." Being decisive doesn't mean they are good decisions. In this case it means stubborn. Throwing accurately to covered WRs is part of it as that's the risk part. You roll the dice and often come up roses. I'm actually OK with it. I don't mind deep INTs as much as most. Gunslingers keep the safeties back. It's the stupid shorter ones that kill you.

From the site that you got your definition:
What is Gunslinger?
This is a quarterback who plays the position in a decisive, aggressive manner. In order to be a gunslinger you must have the ability to throw deep, accurate passes.

Brett Favre is considered to be the NFL's top gunslinger of all time. Favre was known for throwing the ball hard and accurate into almost any coverage on the field.

You read that and still used Farve as your anti example, LOL. https://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nfl/gunslinger.aspx
 

rawdawg

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2015 Brad Kaaya:

11.8 percent of Kaaya’s dropbacks under pressure resulted in sacks, compared to 9.5 percent for Watson. But both of these rates put Watson and Kaaya in an upper tier of quarterbacks in terms ability to avoid the sack. To put those numbers into perspective, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield—whose mobility is much closer to Watson’s than Kaaya’s—was sacked on 24.4 percent of his pressured dropbacks.
Due to his lack of mobility, Kaaya’s sack avoidance might actually be more impressive. His ability to move within the pocket is elite, especially considering his age.

http://www.cfbfilmroom.com/2016/06/02/brad-kaaya-versus-deshaun-watson-advanced-stats-breakdown/

Good find. Changes things a little. I'd like to see his 2016 numbers. I'd also like to see something about his ability to avoid being hit. I'm not as concerned about the sacks as I am about him getting hit after he throws. The famous hit vs. FSU where he got his tooth knocked out wasn't on a sack. Granted, it was a dirty hit. But those are the type of things that other immobile QBs have been able to avoid.
 

bearmick

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2015 Brad Kaaya:

11.8 percent of Kaaya’s dropbacks under pressure resulted in sacks, compared to 9.5 percent for Watson. But both of these rates put Watson and Kaaya in an upper tier of quarterbacks in terms ability to avoid the sack. To put those numbers into perspective, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield—whose mobility is much closer to Watson’s than Kaaya’s—was sacked on 24.4 percent of his pressured dropbacks.
Due to his lack of mobility, Kaaya’s sack avoidance might actually be more impressive. His ability to move within the pocket is elite, especially considering his age.

http://www.cfbfilmroom.com/2016/06/02/brad-kaaya-versus-deshaun-watson-advanced-stats-breakdown/

That's a big deal for me. Kaaya is growing on me as the best day two option if they go defense @3.
 

Monsieur Tirets

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kaaya also went through 3 different systems in his time at miami. and when considering that, he handled it pretty damn well.

something i liked was that when i saw him on grudens qb camp, he talked about prep and how he breaks everything down and i also liked how at one point during the season(after their losing streak) he told the team something along the lines of "from here on out, no matter who we are playing, where we are playing, we are going to take a victory formation at the end of every game." and the did, they won their last 4 games convincingly. granted the competition wasnt the stiffest and their record wasnt great in the end, but still.

and ill admit, when i originally wrote him off due to the pressure thing, it was only after watching 2016 footage. i have since gone back and watched 2015 footage and he was like a different player in that regard. i wonder what happened? as i mentioned he changed systems, so perhaps that somehow had something to do with it.

anyway, i think i like kaaya later in the draft better than any of the other prospects now. he has just as much upside, if not more, and wont require reaching for at 3.
 

Bort

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The accuracy part is interesting because I completely agree about Kaaya being so on the vast majority of his throws but once you move him off his spot or he needs to go downfield, guys like Trubisly are better. I think the ability to throw from different angles and on the move is underrated by almost everyone. You want a guy the favors a pocket and scans but you don't always get it and the ability to snap one off going sideways can be the difference maker at crunch time. I would give the situational accuracy win to Mahomes and then Trubisky over Kaaya even though Kaaya is remarkably accurate to 20 yards with his feet under him. He also loses more velocity than the other 2 when he can't throw in rhythm. As slow as Glennon is and he's also not strong armed, he can still side arm, buggy whip one when running left

I pretty much agree with this. Kaaya is more accurate in general, but Mahomes and Trubisky are more accurate when throwing under duress or on the run.
 

The Hawk

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Watson is the best QB of this crop and its not even close

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I think so. He proved himself on the field against the best defense in college football and had Saban on record talking about how hard he was to plan against. That is enough for me.
 

Bort

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Virginia Tech Hokies 34 - 3 North Carolina M. Trubisky13-33, 58 YDS, 2 INT ( the other 1year starting qb did not turn the ball over and threw 2 Td passes)


Duke 28-27 North Carolina M. Trubisky 24/33 297 3 INTS. 2 QBR 78.3 (this was a upset by a 4-6, 1-5 Conf freshman Qb-led Duke team. The freshman DID NOT have a T.O.)


North Carolina State 28 - North Carolina 21 Trubisky QBR 66.8 ( North Carolina was the favorite and again was upset see Duke game)

HYUNDAI SUN BOWL ( "big stage game"....sort of speak)
Stanford 25-North Carolina 23 Trubisky QBR 43.3 (3 T.O.'s by Trubisky, 2 picks 1 fumble)

Not sure I would call throwing picks late in the game against Duke for example on 1st and 10 or his interceptions against Stanford that gave Standford the lead good interceptions.

His strength is not that he threw good interceptions. It's that he threw so few of them. Otherwise good writeup.

I really do think that interceptions, touchdowns, completions, and incompletions can be lucky, unlucky, good, bad, etc, and so it's always so much better to watch the games through a couple times rather than to look at statistics.

Take the Duke game for example. In my opinion, by far the worst pass that Trubisky threw in that game (and one of the worst passes I saw him throw in any game) was late in the 2nd quarter on 1st and 10 where Trubisky thought there was an opening that didn't exist because he didn't see the corner dropping and basically threw the ball right to him, but the corner dropped what should have been a "bad" interception.

On the other hand, I think both of the interceptions Trubisky threw in that game would fall into my category of "good" interceptions. On the first one, he made the correct read and threw to an open receiver, but a defensive player made a great athletic play to tip it near the line of scrimmage. I think that was a good read and a good throw, it was just unlucky. On the second one, his team was trailing with about a minute left on the clock and the ball at like his own 10 yard line, which is a reasonable time to try to force a throw you wouldn't otherwise make. The fact that it happened to be first down wasn't really an issue since he was so deep in his own territory with so little time on the clock.

In the Stanford game, the first interception was on 3rd and 4 at midfield in the 2nd quarter, which isn't a bad time or place to throw one. I agree that the second interception was "bad", though. 2nd and 9 deep in your own territory with 14 minutes to play and a small lead is a terrible time and place to throw a pick, and it was an awful read where he didn't see even see the safety. Overall, though, I thought Trubisky played well in the Stanford game, much better than his stat line would tell you. Two separate times in the fourth quarter, receivers dropped what should have been long touchdown passes. This drop was pretty ridiculous:

giphy.gif
 

Bort

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2015 Brad Kaaya:

11.8 percent of Kaaya’s dropbacks under pressure resulted in sacks, compared to 9.5 percent for Watson. But both of these rates put Watson and Kaaya in an upper tier of quarterbacks in terms ability to avoid the sack. To put those numbers into perspective, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield—whose mobility is much closer to Watson’s than Kaaya’s—was sacked on 24.4 percent of his pressured dropbacks.
Due to his lack of mobility, Kaaya’s sack avoidance might actually be more impressive. His ability to move within the pocket is elite, especially considering his age.

http://www.cfbfilmroom.com/2016/06/02/brad-kaaya-versus-deshaun-watson-advanced-stats-breakdown/

Kaaya does not move well in the pocket. He avoids sacks by getting rid of the ball, and he gets hit a lot, even when he isn't taking sacks.

I think it would be much more accurate to say "Kaaya's ability to quickly, accurately, and intelligently get rid of the football is elite."
 

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