BearsFan51
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This could be where Shaheen makes a huge difference. Perhaps he doesn't get over 800-yards but merely becomes the primary red zone threat.
This could be where Shaheen makes a huge difference. Perhaps he doesn't get over 800-yards but merely becomes the primary red zone threat.
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Because this is the same roster as Tampa was for Glennon, Shaheen offers nothing more than Tampa's TEs, same scheme, and Glennon's not improved a lick, so...:dunno:
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Stats show the Bears had worse injury impact than even DAL in terms of starters missed, and their backups also missed.
http://sportsmockery.com/2017/06/researchers-confirmed-bears-were-most-injury-impacted-team-of-2016/
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2016_injuries.htm
https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/4/10/15247314/chicago-bears-led-the-nfl-in-adjusted-games-lost-2016-injured-injuries-injury
Sounds very familiar to what the Bears 4th string QBs and backups on O did last year. Gave up the ball.
Not sure what you're getting at about "identity". Any data on # of plays pass/run or success/failure of what you're getting at?
Difference? You're making my point of their similarities. Clearly the Bears strength is also the interior of their OL, which many say is the best in football. I'd pose that running Howard down people's throats with a'la 2017 league leading ave yards after contact AND yards between the Tackles is something to look forward to. It's just not sexy without WINS to bring attention to it, as Howard was left off the top 100 despite what would've been the rushing title if started since week 3, much less 4 games not starting. (only 160 some yards behind Zeke).
Hard to expect worse or even as bad QB play as last year. To expect no improvement due to new QBs is pretty naive and pessimistic.
This is my point on how the Bears again, are similar. Diff is Da Bears had to wait another year to combine their stud RB with a decent QB. Yes, this is to be proven, but again, no way Glennon/Tribs is as bad as the hot mess thrown onto the field from the gutters by 3-13 Bears. CHI will run a LOT, and limit liability of QBs as they ease into things...same as Dak was limited initially as a rookie.
CHI DEF also has some new starters...4-5 new names in backfield for starters (no pun intentended). Even AVERAGE play by those guys and record low turnovers (INTs & fumbles recovered) should get better.
We agree on the last point. Yes, good players are a must. Your points hugely underestimate the talent the Bears have, and are based on nothing but pessimistic exaggeration. 95%? WTH are you talking about? Please back that up with something.
More likely, like many, you're still puckered up in the rear over a 3-13 record and underestimate the fact that most the talent was sitting on the sidelines or at home on IR last season (again, see the list)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2016_injuries.htm
I stand by my point that the swing from bad record to promising potential is very similar to the turnaround at DAL is closer than most of us think. Just need an average QB to not shit the bed, and no worse than average to decent injury avoidance.
Those unknowns are why I don't bank on a 10-6 record, much less DAL's 13-3 level of success. Still need depth and confirmed QB quality play. The rest is very similar.
bears51/40
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When Glennon was on the field in TB who were his TE's?
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It's not "aimless" to search for solid-to-elite players from later rounds and UDFAs on the super cheap with tons of holes to fill, while gambling on elite athleticism and ceiling in the draft.
See Meredith, Whitehair, Howard as prime examples of a diamond in the rough.
Again, it's not a sexy way to build a team, but overspending for short-term aged vets with big names is no way to last in this league, much less get to the top. Keep the payroll low with cheap filler guys with upside replacing old/expensive and shit/bad fit talent from previous regime, and allow for the chance to jump on the right FAs when they pop up, a'la Sitton.
Guaranteed, Pace is shopping for a cap-casualty Tackle & DBs as cheap rookies show their promise and out-value some vets in camps. I'd be surprised if they don't nab another before Week 1.
See Meredith, Whitehair, Howard as prime examples of a diamond in the rough.
Again, it's not a sexy way to build a team, but overspending for short-term aged vets with big names is no way to last in this league, much less get to the top. Keep the payroll low with cheap filler guys with upside replacing old/expensive and shit/bad fit talent from previous regime, and allow for the chance to jump on the right FAs when they pop up, a'la Sitton.
Guaranteed, Pace is shopping for a cap-casualty Tackle & DBs as cheap rookies show their promise and out-value some vets in camps. I'd be surprised if they don't nab another before Week 1.
Wild_x_Card
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Plenty of Gaurds have been drafted in the first round over the past five years. Some in the top 10. The year Long was drafted there was a big run on interior OL early. We could argue the whole "value" of doing so but teams still do it and in some cases the position group is the strength of the class.
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I appreciate this response, and don't get me wrong, I'm not upset, just looking for more justification of your opinion, which this certainly delivered on. Seems that so many are so negative without reason, media especially...rubs me the wrong way.
To your points:
- I don't expect Glennon/other QB to be great, just average. Isn't a 122 much greater than average? If you really dive into the stats, Bears sucked primarily last year due to record breaking negative turnover ratios on both sides of the ball. Glennon's known for not turning it over. That alone is worth a few more wins. 300 yards rushing is just under 19 yards / game, hardly enough to significantly contribute to the W/L column.
- I will straight disagree that Zeke is better than Howard. They're close, but all stats I've seen give Howard the edge despite what you see as a better OL in DAL, who did lose one of their starters this off-season, while CHI had several games missed by several starters including Sitton & Long (played hurt often & eventually on IR).
- Currently DAL has the edge in WR corps for sure, but you can't expect CHI WRs to be as barren and shitty as last season can you?
All indications are for improvements in each area discussed > last season's backup guys. CHI-QBs will be the wildcard for sure. The comparison isn't that far off from the changes made from shit seasons to next year upswing by DAL & CHI. Again, I never claimed CHI will win 13 games, just saying that 8-8 is very doable, with a 10-6 ceiling. This accounts for the advantages of DAL > CHI you noted in QB & WR depts.
Good discussion :yep:
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We'll just have to disagree here also in several ways:
- There are some playmakers. Just need em healthy, and in many cases hitting that sophomore swing (Floyd prime example)
- Pace has hit more than occasionally and is building through the draft, not FA. He's filling gaping holes with temporary patches via affordable unrestrictive FA prove-it deals.
- this is what you want while tanking & developing talent from young unknown corps. Hardly what Gar/Pax was doing...overpaying aged vets like Wade & Rondo. Trading Butler is similar in some ways to Bears letting Alshon walk. Neither was happy about what was going on in CHI (Jimmy signed before Wade was unloaded) and both had max price tags on em. Woulda been nice to build around Jimmy, but Bulls finally accepted the full-on tank role that CHI has embraced since Pace took over. Only 7 players remain from the 2014 roster Pace inherited.
- Gar/Pax continually piss off their players and lie to the fans. Pace seems pretty clear & open about his plans, and will stick to em even if fans & media don't like it. Gar/Pax caved to fanbase by trying to please us with Wade & Rondo happlessly. They are the definition of "aimless" and deserve the heat.
We do agree:
- Meredith & other WRs are hardly proven
- Gar/Pax suck & are aimless.
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Howard
SEASON TEAM GP ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
2016
CHI
15 252 1,313 5.2 69 6 70 1 1
Career 15 252 1,313 5.2 69 6 70 1 1
RECEIVING STATS
SEASON TEAM GP REC TGTS YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
2016
CHI
15 29 50 298 10.3 34 1 12 1 0
Career 15 29 50 298 10.3 34 1 12 1 0
Elliott
SEASON TEAM GP ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
2016
DAL
15 322 1,631 5.1 60 15 91 5 1
Career 15 322 1,631 5.1 60 15 91 5 1
RECEIVING STATS
SEASON TEAM GP REC TGTS YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
2016
DAL
15 32 40 363 11.3 83 1 11 0 0
Career 15 32 40 363 11.3 83 1 11 0 0
Actually close to identical
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Warmack in Tennessee hasn't been impressive and Cooper has been a major bust at OG. Both drafted in top10
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What some fail to realize is the TD passes and 300 yard games were some magical horseshoe shit special from Matt Barkley. We chased that guy out of town, which will now expose that wasn't Barkley holding Loggaines and the vaunted Bears offense back, but a young QB finding a way to convert first downs despite his team and coaches. We removed the one element that kept us even remotely competitive.
Its plain as day these coaches are incompetent and being out schemed in every game, out philosophie, out play called, and out adjusted.
The worst part is Trubisky working his rookie cherry ass off for guys who won't be here when it matters for him. He should be learning the 2018 playbook already but the McCaskey's wanted to save a few million and give Fox a chance, showing there ignorance and anyone here supporting them and saying 8-8 is just showing their ignorance too or is young.
The Bears are in the worst stretch of franchise history. They thought Fox was safe after one disaster only to fall into the trap of old school has been. Sports has changed more in the last 5 years in every sport due to analytics, and the Bears are gearing up for ground and pound, bend don't break defense. wtf. its a surreal nightmare, as is al the homerism and hope in here. 8-8 with our schedule is a fantasy delusion.
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I agreed with a lot that you said but I don't think the Bears are in a franchise low. I think there is a lot more to look forward to than you. But this is not a franchise low. I've been an avid fan since the early 70s and this, in my opinion, is not a low point.
BearsFan51
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And arguably every guard drafted in the first round other than Kyle Long have been massive disappointments. The Bears were lucky with Long and nothing more.
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Usuing words like "every" will lead to arguments yes. It's exaggerating and you give nothing to back up your negativity. Do you really believe what you say? Why bother posting crap like this?
It must go both ways. Can't just shit on a draft hit as "lucky", then also shit on the misses. Look at the causes at least. Further, not saying this is you, but sooo many are shitting on guys who have yet to prove whether hits or busts way too early. Ex. Floyd. He also has yet to prove one way or the other, but 4 games in people called him a massive bust & not worth the trade up. Fellow CHI fans are chapped to say the least.
The leaning to the negative at every turn and failure to even justify it beyond opinionated labeling and assumptions is just a pissy way to look at things.
mecha
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the Wannstedt years were probably still worse. even Brian Hoyer scored more touchdowns than the scrubs they bought the farm for multiple times in the 90s. I wasn't alive in the 70s, so I didn't get to experience that shitshow either. or the 60s either for that matter. you people are whining about Bears teams now that lose games by a score, we're already out of the tunnel compared to being down 50 points at halftime 3 years ago.
the jury's still out on the talent Pace has acquired, I'll give everyone that, and the "rebuild" has taken an eternity. I think it'll all come to fruition eventually. maybe even Aaron Rodgers' play will diminish in time for it. :lmao:
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two 3-13 seasons in the modern cap era of parity and schedule relief for bad teams would statistically be right there though no?
I think you have to be a fucking tool not get better nowadays whereas the era you are talking about you could either be cheap or sometimes might find yourself in a competitive talent gap and have some bad years.
BearsFan51
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Whoa look at you coming with the fancy metric to look smart.
A). The TEs in Tampa sucked when Glennon arrived
B). They drafted Austin Seffaris Jenkns who has been a major bust and has already been cut in Tampa.
That equals C, there wasn't anyone worth a shit to throw the ball to at the TE position wo why would Glennon target them in the first place?
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^ I at least appreciate the effort. Better to see an attempt making a point than spewing blind negativity like many.
Funny how each time this is called out, threads dry up. Seldom much at all to back up the opinionated blame-game & bitch-festing.
Some informative back & forth discussions here would be cool, but it seems a wait & see approach is all that's left since many minds are simply made up that everything sucks until proven wrong with some wins.
The Hawk
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My favorite teams
It might not be a franchise low but it is definitely a pretty bad low. This is going to be a very ugly season offensively. And if they have a below average fate injury-wise, this team is going to be pathetic because as bad as the starters are as a group, the reserves are even worse
