Close
Page 3 of 31 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 45 to 66 of 682
  1. #45
    Senior Member Diehardfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Western Burbs
    Posts
    5,216
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Don't really give a shit what the reasons are.....but when you only get 3 hits and 4 baserunners off the dealings of such luminary pitchers as Hill, Morrow and Fields, you got a big problem. And it doesn't have a fucking thing to with a Joe Maddon decision....it's the playoffs, winners hit at big times and winners don't walk a gazillion guys.

  2. A message from our sponsors.


    Please Register(it's free!) and Login to get rid of this advertisement.


  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Diehardfan For This Useful Post:


  4. #46
    CCS Donator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,391
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How exactly do you quantify "leadership?" My issue with your argument is you're implying they aren't scoring runs because they lack leadership.
    I've specifically stated the Cubs had a poorly constructed roster at the start of the season and it's been extremely evident in the playoffs. You keep making posts that distract.

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's fine if it's your opinion but it's not something you can measure or have a discussion about.
    1. Perhaps you can't have a discussion about it, because it appears all you have are numbers. I've stated this repeatedly and you don't get it. Numbers don't play the game. If numbers played the game, Epstein would be a robotic GM/Pres. He's even admitted that numbers don't tell the whole story of a player, but here you are arguing something else.

    2. I'm sorry you can't measure it.

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    For example, how do we know Jay isn't more of a "leader" than Fowler?
    I've already explained this. I'm not rehashing it to someone being deliberately obtuse in order to try to win an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And secondly, how do you know the leadership they have within the club isn't "enough?" Rizzo is still there off last years team. Heyward is also a club house leader. It's just a pointless argument to me because even if there is a real impact there and i'm dubious on that but even if it exists the public doesn't know it. Only those in the club house will. I also find the "numbers don't play the game" argument weak. Numbers show what happened in a game. That may or may not be predictive going forward but you can draw conclusions about what went wrong based on numbers. That's why I use them. They are something objective as opposed to gut feelings people have.
    Let's see. With Fowler, Cubs won the World Series. Without Fowler, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS. That's the only objective data that matters in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The fact of the matter is that the cubs were 5th in wRC+ behind the astros, dodgers, yanks, and nats this year. And as of right now you have 3 players on the cubs postseason roster with more than 10 PAs and a wRC+ at 80 or greater. That's Almora(14 PAs 91 wRC+), Jay(23 PAs 83 wRC+) and Contreras(28 PAs 80 wRC+). In other words, the CF platoon of Jay/Almora have been the best hitters on the team and I use the term "best" pretty loosely there as a 80 wRC+ is fairly crummy. You got 7-8 other guys who just aren't hitting. I don't see how "leadership" changes that.
    Based upon the numbers you provided, the Nats should have beaten the Cubs. Whoops!

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Parade_Rain For This Useful Post:


  6. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    False. The team needed a rain delay and a good speech from a team member in Cleveland to get focused and win. Focus matters. Leadership matters. Enjoy your participation trophy.
    And that SAME FUCKING PLAYER is still on the Cubs this season, so where is this mysterious leadership vacuum you're arguing exists? When did Jason Heyward forget how to be a leader? When did Rizzo? When did Zobrist? When did Lester?

    You're making up a problem that doesn't exist. Leadership is important but the Cubs don't lack it. What they lack right now is guys hitting the ball far and often and relievers who reliably get outs.

  7. #48
    CCS Donator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,391
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And that SAME FUCKING PLAYER is still on the Cubs this season, so where is this mysterious leadership vacuum you're arguing exists? When did Jason Heyward forget how to be a leader? When did Rizzo? When did Zobrist? When did Lester?

    You're making up a problem that doesn't exist. Leadership is important but the Cubs don't lack it. What they lack right now is guys hitting the ball far and often and relievers who reliably get outs.

  8. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Let's see. With Fowler, Cubs won the World Series. Without Fowler, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS. That's the only objective data that matters in the end.
    With Miguel Montero, Cubs won the World Series. Without Miguel Montero, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS.

    With Travis Wood, Cubs won the World Series. Without Travis Wood, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

    Bad arguments are bad.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to fatbeard For This Useful Post:


  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,666

    Default

    My favorite baseball quote over the last few years is "baseball is a math problem until pesky humans get involved". In other words numbers are great and they tell you a great deal, probably most of the story, but players are people and you cannot ignore that aspect of the game. You do it at your own peril. Frankly it's Theo's blend of analytics and people based interactions that we can thank for having the players we do. It's important and it matters.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TC in Mississippi For This Useful Post:


  12. #51
    CCS Donator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,391
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With Miguel Montero, Cubs won the World Series. Without Miguel Montero, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS.

    With Travis Wood, Cubs won the World Series. Without Travis Wood, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

    Bad arguments are bad.
    The other contributor the Cubs lost (due to retirement and no fault to the organization) is Ross. You can't explain what his presence to the team meant, but the video at the last home game said it all. Ross helped other Cubs players achieve. That's leadership. Screaming "Respect Me" and going 0-14 afterwards isn't. Sorry leadership isn't measureable for you to accumulate on fangraphs. It's obviously a concept you can't grasp WRT to team sports.

  13. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TC in Mississippi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My favorite baseball quote over the last few years is "baseball is a math problem until pesky humans get involved". In other words numbers are great and they tell you a great deal, probably most of the story, but players are people and you cannot ignore that aspect of the game. You do it at your own peril. Frankly it's Theo's blend of analytics and people based interactions that we can thank for having the players we do. It's important and it matters.
    Still waiting to hear how a roster with Rizzo, Heyward, Lester, and Zobrist "NEEDz MOAR LEadershiP!

    As opposed to, you know, more base hits and getting guys out.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to fatbeard For This Useful Post:


  15. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The other contributor the Cubs lost (due to retirement and no fault to the organization) is Ross. You can't explain what his presence to the team meant, but the video at the last home game said it all. Ross helped other Cubs players achieve. That's leadership. Screaming "Respect Me" and going 0-14 afterwards isn't. Sorry leadership isn't measureable for you to accumulate on fangraphs. It's obviously a concept you can't grasp WRT to team sports.
    Please quote my words where I said, or even implied, that leadership doesn't matter. I'll wait. Thanks.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to fatbeard For This Useful Post:


  17. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6,961

    Default

    I too remember when David Ross' leadership kept the Cubs from getting swept in the 2015 NLCS and propelled them on to win the World Series.

    Oh wait...

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to fatbeard For This Useful Post:


  19. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've specifically stated the Cubs had a poorly constructed roster at the start of the season and it's been extremely evident in the playoffs. You keep making posts that distract.

    1. Perhaps you can't have a discussion about it, because it appears all you have are numbers. I've stated this repeatedly and you don't get it. Numbers don't play the game. If numbers played the game, Epstein would be a robotic GM/Pres. He's even admitted that numbers don't tell the whole story of a player, but here you are arguing something else.

    2. I'm sorry you can't measure it.

    I've already explained this. I'm not rehashing it to someone being deliberately obtuse in order to try to win an argument.

    Let's see. With Fowler, Cubs won the World Series. Without Fowler, Cubs are looking more like a team that will be swept out of the NLCS. That's the only objective data that matters in the end.

    Based upon the numbers you provided, the Nats should have beaten the Cubs. Whoops!
    I'm honestly not trying to be a dick here or "win an argument." I'm trying to understand your points. Seriously that's all I'm trying to do here. What's confusing to me is you seem to be saying multiple things and I'm not sure which is your true feeling. So, I think it breaks down to this. Are you A) Saying it was a mistake to not re-sign fowler and that's it B) saying they need to sign a lead off hitter or C) saying they need to sign a lead off hitter who is also a vet presence? If you're just saying A then I sorta get where you're coming from. Fowler is a good player and you'll remember I was one of the people supporting him in 2015 near the all-star break when people were ready to run him out of town. That being said, given the money he got it was probably always going to be unfeasible since as we look toward 2018's offseason the cubs have a lot of pitching holes and when he signed the cubs didn't know they were going to have Q for certain.

    As for B & C, I don't ever remember instances of Fowler being cited as a club house leader. He was a great hitter but like I said I don't remember him being much of a leader. If you're making the argument that the cubs lack leadership from 2016 to this year to me that loss was Ross not Fowler. Again maybe I'm not understand what you're saying here but if you just think they are short on leadership I think a far more realistic scenario is they just find the next David Ross like back up catcher to put behind Contreras starting ~60% of the games. Avila and Rivera are both FA IIRC and Caratini seems to green to make the every day roster for 2018.

    As for them just needing a lead off hitter, to me that's more a "wouldn't it be nice if" rather than a must have. I truly don't believe any other lead off hitter makes a difference in the 7 post season games. Unless it's someone who's literally homering multiple times in those 7 games he's likely just going to get on base and with the way Rizzo/Bryant have hit he'll get stranded. I know this because Jay has lead off a number of these games with a hit. The reason I brought up the whole 2017 runs/wRC+ thing was to show that even without an obvious lead off guy they were still a top 5 offense. So sure, it would be great to have a Dexter Fowler type hitter at the top of the line up. But if I had the choice between Dexter Fowler at $16.5 mil or Jay/Almora at $8.5 and a $8 mil set up guy right now I'd take the set up guy with what they have.

    Frankly, I'd love if they found a way to sign say Lorenzo Cain as well as do all the things I said. But I honestly think that's entirely unlikely. They have ~$75 mil coming off their books. Assuming they re-sign Davis, replace Koji, Duensing, Rondon, back up C, Jay's replacement, and 2 starters you're easily looking at $60 mil+ and that's before you factor in arbitration for Russell/Hendricks/Bryant. Presumably they also would like to get below the luxury tax given how badly those rules hurt now. So, realistically only way I see them signing someone like Cain is if they either A) land Otani by some miracle or B) find a way to move Heyward or Zobrist. If they could find someone to take on Zobrist's 2 years $29 mil I'd be thrilled. Can't imagine anyone takes on Heyward's deal however.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to beckdawg For This Useful Post:


  21. #56
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    This has nothing to do with Fowler. He was a leadoff man trying to hit the ball out of the park. He is a below average fielder who found a niche here.

    What makes no sense now is not moving Bryant or Rizzo around in the order.

    I bought into Heyward when Fowler was leaving and they got the centerfielder for a few years, but they never pressured Heyward to a tough spot in the batting order. I know he is not doing much now, but his foul balls are coming off that bat around 107 mph. They pressure the kids but not the 25 million dollar man.

    No faith in Almora, but had him leading off last series. Happ was not given a shot yet either, but you will start Jay in Right field?

    Its going to be a 0-0 game as against Darvish. No small ball, you are hoping Schwarber, Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Russell, Contrares or Baez goes deep.

    I would not be surprised to see Avila in the game though, even if they put Contrares in left. I think part of the bullpens issues is stopping for contrares to have a meeting.

    Maybe that backup catcher can be the difference in turning the series around again.
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  22. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What makes no sense now is not moving Bryant or Rizzo around in the order.
    That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. Weren't the cubs batting Schwarber/Bryant/Rizzo/Contreras 2-5 prior to Contreras getting hurt? I suppose Schwarber hasn't been playing a ton but I recall they were really grooving during that time.

  23. #58
    Junior Member millerjg01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Bentonville, AR
    Posts
    15
    Sports Logo

    Default

    100% agree with those saying trade Scwharber to the AL....
    This team's Achilles heel this year is bullpen (other than closer). I said time and again it will prevent them from winning the pennant.

    We also need another starter (Lackey is gone and I don't think we resign Arrieta)....I would be ok with trying to get Lance Lynn.

    Thoughts?

  24. #59
    Junior Member millerjg01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Bentonville, AR
    Posts
    15
    Sports Logo

    Default

    I think the dirty little secret is that Joe Maddon sucks at managing the lineup/pitching changes/in game strategy.

    The man is masterful in the clubhouse, masterful at getting guys in the right frame of mind to play, to win, to overcome obstacles, etc etc etc. He is one of the best at those things. He also gives a really good presser and is great at not putting blame/undue pressure on guys who just choked a game away (cough, Edwards, cough cough). But his in game tactics suck and I can't stand his line up cards.

  25. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millerjg01 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    100% agree with those saying trade Scwharber to the AL....
    This team's Achilles heel this year is bullpen (other than closer). I said time and again it will prevent them from winning the pennant.

    We also need another starter (Lackey is gone and I don't think we resign Arrieta)....I would be ok with trying to get Lance Lynn.

    Thoughts?
    Give the year Lynn had he's probably going to be too pricey for the cubs but I'd be cool if they got him for less than I'm imagining he goes. If you got him on a Shark like deal I'd probably be cool with that but given the other options out there I'm guessing he gets paid more than he's worth.

  26. #61
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,572
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Priority #1 is replacing Jake. Tseng should be able to back fill Lackey.

    So that leaves the pen. Honestly I feel that the sporadic hitting has been the real issue but honestly Hill and Shaw both have solid hammers and pretty much shut the O down.

    But at the pen:

    Davis: Resign
    That leaves L/R set ups

    Honestly you have Edwards and Wilson. I believe both will work out the bugs this offseason.

    Loogy: Resign Duensing.

    7th inning guy: Strop and Maples

    so that is 6 guys. Then you add Montgomery in as L/R and spot start. Mills should be back to full and also becomes depth at AAA.

    Over all they really need to get what they have more consistent in throwing strikes. These guys have talent.

    So in reality they need to trade for a front line SP. That is it. And to be honest it should be either Baez or Happ that they deal out. They need to make a decision on what direction that they go with.

    And to be honest if Jake was 100% right now this series could be more even. Right now they edge goes to pitching depth.

  27. #62
    Senior Member chibears55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    9,906
    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. Weren't the cubs batting Schwarber/Bryant/Rizzo/Contreras 2-5 prior to Contreras getting hurt? I suppose Schwarber hasn't been playing a ton but I recall they were really grooving during that time.
    I mentioned this earlier this year that this was their best lineup and it what they did in WS

    Maddon kept changing it with Zobrist hitting cleanup

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

  28. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Priority #1 is replacing Jake. Tseng should be able to back fill Lackey.

    So that leaves the pen. Honestly I feel that the sporadic hitting has been the real issue but honestly Hill and Shaw both have solid hammers and pretty much shut the O down.

    But at the pen:

    Davis: Resign
    That leaves L/R set ups

    Honestly you have Edwards and Wilson. I believe both will work out the bugs this offseason.

    Loogy: Resign Duensing.

    7th inning guy: Strop and Maples

    so that is 6 guys. Then you add Montgomery in as L/R and spot start. Mills should be back to full and also becomes depth at AAA.

    Over all they really need to get what they have more consistent in throwing strikes. These guys have talent.

    So in reality they need to trade for a front line SP. That is it. And to be honest it should be either Baez or Happ that they deal out. They need to make a decision on what direction that they go with.

    And to be honest if Jake was 100% right now this series could be more even. Right now they edge goes to pitching depth.
    I agree with most of what you're saying here but I think they need more bullpen depth. The last 2 years they've been killed by injuries come playoff time. Not saying they need say Betancies who's apparently going to be shopped but someone like Pat Neshek feels like he could be a good option. He's going to be 37 so you don't have to get him a super long deal and he has a career walk rate of 2.54 which is something the cubs relievers have struggled with. Feels like he'd be an ideal 8th inning guy who's no nonsense and you could then use Edwards as your fire fighter who hopefully comes in and gets you out of jams with his absurd stuff.

  29. #64
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,572
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I mentioned this earlier this year that this was their best lineup and it what they did in WS

    Maddon kept changing it with Zobrist hitting cleanup

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
    Zobrist 2B
    Schwarber: LF
    Bryant 3B
    Rizzo 1B
    Contreras C
    Happ CF
    Russell SS
    Heyward RF
    Hendricks P

    That is what I would do. Happ helped get you there and you really need a boost. Jay really has been pretty quiet at the top. I would rather have a HR stick in the middle.

  30. #65
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,572
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree with most of what you're saying here but I think they need more bullpen depth. The last 2 years they've been killed by injuries come playoff time. Not saying they need say Betancies who's apparently going to be shopped but someone like Pat Neshek feels like he could be a good option. He's going to be 37 so you don't have to get him a super long deal and he has a career walk rate of 2.54 which is something the cubs relievers have struggled with. Feels like he'd be an ideal 8th inning guy who's no nonsense and you could then use Edwards as your fire fighter who hopefully comes in and gets you out of jams with his absurd stuff.
    I agree that they need a 8th inning guy that starts a inning. Rondon is the best guy that they have But I honestly just don't see the logic in offering him another arb deal.

    Edwards to me is a guy that you bring in when you need a strike out. Maples would be his off day back up. Both are + stuff pitchers that can excell going 100% after 1 guy.

  31. #66
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Priority #1 is replacing Jake. Tseng should be able to back fill Lackey.

    So that leaves the pen. Honestly I feel that the sporadic hitting has been the real issue but honestly Hill and Shaw both have solid hammers and pretty much shut the O down.

    But at the pen:

    Davis: Resign
    That leaves L/R set ups

    Honestly you have Edwards and Wilson. I believe both will work out the bugs this offseason.

    Loogy: Resign Duensing.

    7th inning guy: Strop and Maples

    so that is 6 guys. Then you add Montgomery in as L/R and spot start. Mills should be back to full and also becomes depth at AAA.

    Over all they really need to get what they have more consistent in throwing strikes. These guys have talent.

    So in reality they need to trade for a front line SP. That is it. And to be honest it should be either Baez or Happ that they deal out. They need to make a decision on what direction that they go with.

    And to be honest if Jake was 100% right now this series could be more even. Right now they edge goes to pitching depth.
    I think Tseng could have been a player this offseason. His stuff just floats around and is hard to hit. With no film on the guy there was an advantage. But the way he started his first game with all the nerves, there was no way he was getting on the mound in the playoffs. We will see Tseng as the new Hendricks, that guy that gets pulled early and often if he becomes a starter.
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  32. A message from our sponsors.
    Please Register(it's free!) and Login to get rid of this advertisement.



    Do you want to advertise with ChiCitySports?
    Ranked #1 Chicagoland sports news and message board online.
    A great opportunity for advertising and exposure, with an active base of fresh consumers always looking for sports-related items and miscellaneous "guy stuff".
    Please go here if you are interested in a multitude of placements on this site.
Page 3 of 31 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •