- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,948
- Liked Posts:
- 37,930
My rage is directed at Pace and his not replacing AJ with competent WRs. He threw a bunch of broken shit against the wall and Wright stuck. Not nearly enough for a competent offense.
My rage is directed at Pace and his not replacing AJ with competent WRs. He threw a bunch of broken shit against the wall and Wright stuck. Not nearly enough for a competent offense.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 41,511
- Liked Posts:
- 39,736
Pace with WRs reminds me of Angelo with O-line.... every year just hoping a bunch of misfit toys with injury history will come together.
mattb78
My threads are FTO !
- Joined:
- Sep 18, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,903
- Liked Posts:
- 4,321
- Location:
- Orlando
I believe quick slants are designed to be effective against man coverage.
I don't think the Bears are seeing much man coverage, especially on 1st and 2nd down, as most teams are likely in some type of zone coverage to be in better position to defend the run.
Anybody watching the all 22 feel free to pipe in.
I don't think the Bears are seeing much man coverage, especially on 1st and 2nd down, as most teams are likely in some type of zone coverage to be in better position to defend the run.
Anybody watching the all 22 feel free to pipe in.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,260
- Liked Posts:
- 17,824
- Location:
- Chicago, IL.
My favorite teams
How many years were we a 4-3 zone defense that got shredded by slants? Can someone explain to me why a slant can't be used against zone defense?
ClydeLee
New member
- Joined:
- Jun 29, 2010
- Posts:
- 14,829
- Liked Posts:
- 4,113
- Location:
- The OP
There was lots of fans claiming that. Yet also a ton of Ints and forced fumbles of hits caused by that type of defense.
And the Era when they were most slang attacked like 07-09 the corners were constantly playing off because they had no great pass rush until that changed again with Marinelli and Peppers
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,260
- Liked Posts:
- 17,824
- Location:
- Chicago, IL.
My favorite teams
You're right. Marinelli wasn't an idiot like Lovie. He knew how to play zone defense aggressively. Lovie was only ever successful at ingraining the forced turnover mindset on the defense. Unfortunately it was at such a premium that far too often they would go for a strip instead of a tackle and give up lots of yardage. Rod didn't often give up those Special person 5, 7, 10 yard cushions on receivers that Lovie did. Rod also ostracized defensive players for loafing as he called it. Either you did your job or you were singled out and dunce capped.
In fact I have said it before that Rod Marinelli would have worked god damned miracles if he was our defensive coordinator during Ron Rivera's days as DC. That talent pool alone would have earned Rod a head coaching gig wherever the hell he wanted. Alas he was the Lions' HC from '06 to '08. Plus we all know that Lovie Smith never hired anyone that was a threat to his job. He only hired Rod when he got jettisoned from the Lions and there wasn't a chance in hell he would take his job at that point.
Back to the point at hand though. Why can't we throw slants against a zone defense?
In fact I have said it before that Rod Marinelli would have worked god damned miracles if he was our defensive coordinator during Ron Rivera's days as DC. That talent pool alone would have earned Rod a head coaching gig wherever the hell he wanted. Alas he was the Lions' HC from '06 to '08. Plus we all know that Lovie Smith never hired anyone that was a threat to his job. He only hired Rod when he got jettisoned from the Lions and there wasn't a chance in hell he would take his job at that point.
Back to the point at hand though. Why can't we throw slants against a zone defense?
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,182
- Liked Posts:
- 4,506
So you don't do slants against a stacked box. What do you do? I don't think it's run (even though running is working). Fuck it I'm going deep?
mattb78
My threads are FTO !
- Joined:
- Sep 18, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,903
- Liked Posts:
- 4,321
- Location:
- Orlando
The Bears are doing a good job of running the ball, which means they should see some simpler zone coverages if they throw on 1st or 2nd down.
3rd down is an entirely different story, anything over 3rd and 2, which is not a real run threat, you will generally see man coverage and pressing all the receivers at the line to disrupt routes and give the pass rushers more time. And the Bears receivers are just not good enough to get much separation, other than maybe the TE Miller with a matchup advantage. Put a safety over the top to help cover Miller, bring a blitzer and lock up the rest in man, and that's a pretty good formula to stop the Bears. This is why we are seeing so many attempts to Cohen, he is probably the only matchup advantage against a LB that can get open, he is just inexperienced. So those are the Bears top 2 targets, Miller and Cohen, the only guys who can consistently beat their man.
But the Bears aren't throwing much on 1st or 2nd down, they are rushing the ball because it has been effective and this is their identity.
As Trubisky gets more comfortable, we will likely see some more pass attempts on early downs to take advantage of some softer zones. It will keep the defenses more honest and allow for some less contested receptions.
But 3rd down is going to be a real bitch. And I don't see it getting better anytime soon because we don't have the personnel, especially on the outside.
3rd down is an entirely different story, anything over 3rd and 2, which is not a real run threat, you will generally see man coverage and pressing all the receivers at the line to disrupt routes and give the pass rushers more time. And the Bears receivers are just not good enough to get much separation, other than maybe the TE Miller with a matchup advantage. Put a safety over the top to help cover Miller, bring a blitzer and lock up the rest in man, and that's a pretty good formula to stop the Bears. This is why we are seeing so many attempts to Cohen, he is probably the only matchup advantage against a LB that can get open, he is just inexperienced. So those are the Bears top 2 targets, Miller and Cohen, the only guys who can consistently beat their man.
But the Bears aren't throwing much on 1st or 2nd down, they are rushing the ball because it has been effective and this is their identity.
As Trubisky gets more comfortable, we will likely see some more pass attempts on early downs to take advantage of some softer zones. It will keep the defenses more honest and allow for some less contested receptions.
But 3rd down is going to be a real bitch. And I don't see it getting better anytime soon because we don't have the personnel, especially on the outside.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 41,511
- Liked Posts:
- 39,736
Can't run slants against press man
Can't run slants against stacked box
Can't run slants against zone coverage
Did I hallucinate years of teams raping us with slant routes?
Can't run slants against stacked box
Can't run slants against zone coverage
Did I hallucinate years of teams raping us with slant routes?
Mitchapalooza
Guest
Thinking back did we ever run slants with Marshall and Jeffery? 2 WRs perfect for slants. Cutler never learned how to throw a fade, wouldn't surprise me if he didn't like slants either.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 41,511
- Liked Posts:
- 39,736
We couldn't run slants back then, everyone played zone defense against us, slants don't work against zone.
Mitchapalooza
Guest
Slants should be scrapped from the NFL.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,260
- Liked Posts:
- 17,824
- Location:
- Chicago, IL.
My favorite teams
LOL of course we ran slants with Marshall and Jeffery. I assume that was sarcasm though. I talked earlier about how Trestman ran packaged plays which is basically referred to now as run/pass option or RPO. Same formation/look allows executing a slant, running play, or screen pass. It worked really well for Alshon Jeffery. The offensive line blocks every time as if its a running play. It sells the run hard.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 41,511
- Liked Posts:
- 39,736
Can't run this against press-man coverage.
Mitchapalooza
Guest
Slants are pass play terrorists, sir.
mattb78
My threads are FTO !
- Joined:
- Sep 18, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,903
- Liked Posts:
- 4,321
- Location:
- Orlando
It takes a pretty accurate QB as well.
I think the Patriots probably have the best slant game in the NFL. They see a lot of man coverage and have the most accurate QB to ever play.
Here is an example of a slant thrown by Brady. It gets picked off so it isn't a great example but all I can find quickly. It illustrates the principles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpdOR3LnVqQ
Edelman in the slot roasts man coverage. Since it was a red zone play the safety didn't drop deep and that is why the INT happened. But Edelman had his man beat easy and with the safety usually deeper that would have been an easy pitch and catch.
I think the Patriots probably have the best slant game in the NFL. They see a lot of man coverage and have the most accurate QB to ever play.
Here is an example of a slant thrown by Brady. It gets picked off so it isn't a great example but all I can find quickly. It illustrates the principles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpdOR3LnVqQ
Edelman in the slot roasts man coverage. Since it was a red zone play the safety didn't drop deep and that is why the INT happened. But Edelman had his man beat easy and with the safety usually deeper that would have been an easy pitch and catch.
mattb78
My threads are FTO !
- Joined:
- Sep 18, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,903
- Liked Posts:
- 4,321
- Location:
- Orlando
And honestly I think the Bears took a page out of the Pat's personnel playbook when they drafted Shaheen and Cohen.
Edelman is such a tough matchup when the Patriots go 5 WR and spread it out. It isolates Edelman in one on one coverage which he can beat. And if you want to get tricky and help with a safety, the Gronk is there to beat you over the top. It is almost too easy for them. Spread it out and throw where the safeties aren't because your guy can beat the other guy one on one. All you need is a super accurate QB and your O-line to block very well, which the Patriots amazingly always seem to pull off.
That is why they had a tough time with the Giants in the superbowls because the Giants had an extremely dominant front 4 that got pressure with no help and the Pats could not spread it out like they wanted because the O-line just couldn't protect.
Edelman is such a tough matchup when the Patriots go 5 WR and spread it out. It isolates Edelman in one on one coverage which he can beat. And if you want to get tricky and help with a safety, the Gronk is there to beat you over the top. It is almost too easy for them. Spread it out and throw where the safeties aren't because your guy can beat the other guy one on one. All you need is a super accurate QB and your O-line to block very well, which the Patriots amazingly always seem to pull off.
That is why they had a tough time with the Giants in the superbowls because the Giants had an extremely dominant front 4 that got pressure with no help and the Pats could not spread it out like they wanted because the O-line just couldn't protect.
ClydeLee
New member
- Joined:
- Jun 29, 2010
- Posts:
- 14,829
- Liked Posts:
- 4,113
- Location:
- The OP
If you can get off it like Marshall and after rookie year Jeffery. Slants and crosses are great against to if you have WRs you can know to do it. But mugged up shitty in traffic guys like Knox get no no fight out against the traffic and the lingering roster of this talent pool sure is the latter.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Members online NOW
- Member
- Admin
- Mod
- Donor
- HOF
- Antobears
- AuCN
- bamainatlanta
- BBBF
- BearDown104
- Bears34
- bearsfan1977
- Black Rainbow
- Bort
- Buberwin
- BudMan69420
- Butkus34
- Canth
- Chief Walking Stick
- chislappy
- clenbuterol_clint
- DavidH
- dennehy
- dentfan
- Dhipur
- Dumpster Fire
- eddieb
- Grendel2000
- hyatt151
- I Just Want To Read
- IBleedBearsBlood
- Infamousbe
- jbunch14
- JUSTFINGWIN
- KittiesKorner
- knoxville7
- Kurtosis
- maxhatter
- melm
- misers22
- msadows
- Nuremberg Bear
- peoriabear#1
- PeppersSweater
- PhilEBuster
- playthrough2001
- RandomGuy
- Sculpt
- TezMaKai
- Urblock
- ViggyStargdust
- WestsideResider
- Wild_x_Card
- Yogi
- ytsejam
- ZOMBIE@CTESPN
Staff online NOW
-
bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up
