Leonard Floyd and the need to go OLB in 1st

napo55 · Oct 18, 2017

Defensive picks can bomb also.. Anybody remember Shae McClellin?

If an elite WR is on the board when the Bears pick, I have confidence they will pull the trigger. If you've sold the farm for an elite QB, it makes absolutely no sense to provide him with second (or third) rate weapons.

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

napo55 said:
Of course you could list dozens of great defensive players who never got a ring. Not a convincing argument.

1. I never said anything about defensive players.

2. Isn't it funny that most of the guys that are considered to be the best WR's ever don't have a ring (Other than Jerry Rice who had a great QB and RB).

- Terrell Owens
- Randy Moss
- Calvin Johnson
- Chris Carter
- Tim Brown
- Larry Fitzgerald
- Andre Johnson
- Steve Smith
- Steve Largent

The couple of anomalies are Marvin Harrison who has 1 ring with a top 3 QB, Michael irvin who has 3 with Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and a great defense and Art Monk with John Riggins and Joe Theismann.

Name me the receiving corps of the last 5 superbowl winners -

2017 - Patriots - Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, Malcolm Mitchell, Chris Hogan - Gronk didn't even play.
2016 - Broncos - Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders and Andre Caldwell - Also far from the reason the Broncos won.
2015 - Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, Brandon LaFell and Rob Gronkowski
2014 - Doug Baldwin, Jermainse Kearse and Golden Tate
2013 - Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith and Dennis Pitta

ijustposthere · Oct 18, 2017

TexasBearfan said:
i'm all for difference making pass rusher or OL...the incubation time for rookie WR's can be 2-4 years...why not sign a FA WR who is already experienced

Like Markus Wheaton. Or Victor Cruz.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

Besides QB, WR is pretty much the only other position teams trade up to the top of the 1st round to draft. If you don’t have an elite QB, you need an elite WR. And there are not many elite QB’s around, or elite WR’s for that matter.

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
Besides QB, WR is pretty much the only other position teams trade up to the top of the 1st round to draft. If you don’t have an elite QB, you need an elite WR. And there are not many elite QB’s around, or elite WR’s for that matter.

If you don't have an elite QB...You need an elite defense.

Elite WR's mean nothing.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

PolarBear said:
If you don't have an elite QB...You need an elite defense.

Elite WR's mean nothing.

Top 15 WR’s according to Fox and 2016 record:

1. Antonio Brown 11-5
2. Julio Jones 11-5
3. Odell Beckham Jr 11-5
4. AJ Green 6-9-1
5. Mike Evans 9-7
6. Jordy Nelson 10-6
7. Dez Bryant 13-3
8. TY Hilton 8-8
9. Demaryius Thomas 9-7
10. DeAndre Hopkins 9-7
11. Amari Cooper 13-3
12. Brandin Cooks 8-8
13. Jarvis Landry 10-6
14. Doug Baldwin 10-5-1
15. Julian Edelman 14-2

alexbear1 · Oct 18, 2017

PeterMbangala said:
I admit that I was pretty disappointed with Floyd in the first couple of games of the season. Probably because of all the reports about him being physically stronger in pre season and the prospect of him taking a step up with Fangio working directly with the OLBs.

But he's been really good the last couple of games. I've taken a bit of time to look at him closely and the number of times the protection is lined up on his side of the field is staggering. But he's still creating numerous pressures a game and starting to finish plays. He looks like a really savvy player too, capable of more than just the speed rush we saw coming out of Georgia. His work in the run game in particular has surprised me.

But his progress shows how much we need to find a credible threat opposite him. I'm not going to say OLB is ahead of WR in terms of need but a kid like Arden Key would be hard to turn down and is arguably a safer pick than a WR. I don't watch much College football so are there any other guys that would complement Floyd and suit our system.

As a side note, I think we are starting to finally see the benfit of Fangio. While I would be OK with losing him if a new offensive coach wanted to clean house, the jump the defense looks to have made and Floyd's progress in particular makes me want to keep him if they can be consistently at that level.

What do you all think? Is Fangio getting too much credit? Should we go OLB or WR? Is it too soon to praise Floyd?

I hope the Bears go OLB in the draft. A guy like Bradley Chubb opposite Floyd could provide some added pressure with Young getting old and McPhee injured a lot and perhaps not the same player. I am not sure either of them will be around next season.

Alternatively perhaps someone like Marquis Haynes in the 2nd round if they go in a different and really like a WR in the 1st. I've heard conflicting reports on whether there is a worthy 1st round WR. Might depend on where we pick.

Bradley Chubb / Equanimeous St. Brown or Simmie Cobbs

James Washington or Christian Kirk / Marquis Haynes

FA: Sammy Watkins (likely to stay at the Rams though not seeing that much action) or Paul Richardson and Bennie Fowler as a combo perhaps like Windy suggested.

Jarvis Landry in the slot would be cool but I think Kendall Wright can hold down that position.

WR: Sammy Watkins, Equanimeous St. Brown, Cameron Meredith, Kendall Wright, Kevin White, Bennie Fowler, Tanner Gentry

The above would work for me!

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
Top 15 WR’s according to Fox and 2016 record:

1. Antonio Brown 11-5 - 2 future HOFs in Ben Roethlisberger and Leveon bell (He had 1800 total yards in 12 games)
2. Julio Jones 11-5 - Been good for a really long time...Only started winning when the defense and running game become good.
3. Odell Beckham Jr 11-5 - Record had a lot more to do with one of the leagues best defenses.
4. AJ Green 6-9-1
5. Mike Evans 9-7
6. Jordy Nelson 10-6 - Aaron Rodgers.
7. Dez Bryant 13-3 - Ezekiel Elliott.
8. TY Hilton 8-8
9. Demaryius Thomas 9-7 - Wasn't even that good.
10. DeAndre Hopkins 9-7 - Had a terrible year.
11. Amari Cooper 13-3
12. Brandin Cooks 8-8
13. Jarvis Landry 10-6
14. Doug Baldwin 10-5-1 - Cause Seattle won because of Doug Baldwin right? Nothing to do with the legion of boom
15. Julian Edelman 14-2 - #15 won the superbowl and a 7th round pick was spent on this guy

Really?

I also make reference to my other two lists in this thread.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

PolarBear said:
Really?

Im just stating facts. You have no way to decisively prove who helped who, nor can you summarily disqualify players entirely just because another part of the team excelled.

I mean, i could turn around and say that without Hopkins on the field, Brock Lobster would look even worse and they’d go 3-13. Or I could say that without Beckham on the field, the Giants would have lost 5 of their tight games and end up 6-10

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
Im just stating facts. You have no way to decisively prove who helped who, nor can you summarily disqualify players entirely just because another part of the team excelled.

Your list isn't that good. DeAndre Hopkins and Demaryius Thomas are top 10 receivers but had terrible-bad years. Their winning record is obviously not a reflection on their performance.

Julio Jones has had 2 seasons that were statistically better than last year...it wasn't until that running game exploded and the defense could actually gets stops that the Falcons started winning.

Antonio Brown is really, really good but there is no way you can convince me he has more impact on the game than a RB like Leveon Bell.

Do you know when the Cowboys are good? When Demarco Murray and Ezekiel Elliott are tearing through defenses. Dez Bryant has two 90+ catch seasons - 2012, 2013. Guess the record for both those years...8-8

Everybody knows Aaron Rodgers is the engine to that whole GB team.

ODB had better statistical seasons before last...The Giants were obviously great because of an elite defense.

And who would have thought?...the #15 WR (can you even call that elite?) was the guy with the ring.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

PolarBear said:
Your list isn't that good. DeAndre Hopkins and Demaryius Thomas are top 10 receivers but had terrible-bad years. Their winning record is obviously not a reflection on their performance.

Julio Jones has had 2 seasons that were statistically better than last year...it wasn't until that running game exploded and the defense could actually gets stops that the Falcons started winning.

Antonio Brown is really, really good but there is no way you can convince me he has more impact on the game than a RB like Leveon Bell.

Do you know when the Cowboys are good? When Demarco Murray and Ezekiel Elliott are tearing through defenses. Dez Bryant has two 90+ catch seasons - 2012, 2013. Guess the record for both those years...8-8

Everybody knows Aaron Rodgers is the engine to that whole GB team.

ODB had better statistical seasons before last...The Giants were obviously great because of an elite defense.

And who would have thought?...the #15 WR (can you even call that elite?) was the guy with the ring.

Like I said, how can you prove they weren’t in any way a deciding factor? How can you prove that the Giants would have won any of their close games without Beckham on the field?

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
Like I said, how can you prove they weren’t in any way a deciding factor? How can you prove that the Giants would have won any of their close games without Beckham on the field?

I am not saying they don't contribute. Obviously, if you take Beckham off the field the Giants are worse. I am talking about what's more valuable.

QB, RB's, LT's and literally every defensive position is more valuable than a wide receiver in my opinion.

I want to invest my high picks into positions that are more valuable as long as the talent is there.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

PolarBear said:
I am not saying they don't contribute. Obviously, if you take Beckham off the field the Giants are worse. I am talking about what's more valuable.

QB, RB's, LT's and literally every defensive position is more valuable than a wide receiver in my opinion.

I want to invest my high picks into positions that are more valuable as long as the talent is there.

In that case, just look at the pay scale. That will tell you without a doubt who are the most important players and positions on the field. That’s the ultimate truth, can’t argue that.

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
In that case, just look at the pay scale. That will tell you without a doubt who are the most important players and positions on the field. That’s the ultimate truth, can’t argue that.

It tells me that guys who touch the ball 3-7 times a game are overpaid and that there is a lot more value in the other positions on the field.

Adipost · Oct 18, 2017

PolarBear said:
It tells me that guys who touch the ball 3-7 times a game are overpaid and that there is a lot more value in the other positions on the field.

This is from 2014...

look-how-much-more-quarterbacks-are-paid-than-everyone-else.jpg

I know you’d like to think that you’re smarter than every NFL GM, but money doesn’t lie.

PolarBear · Oct 18, 2017

Adipost said:
This is from 2014...

I know you’d like to think that you’re smarter than every NFL GM, but money doesn’t lie.

Antonio Brown gets paid 17 million a year. Do you know what kinds of players I can get for that money?

- Devonta Freeman and Cowboys C Travis Frederick
- Michael Bennett/Cameron Wake and Vontae Davis/Chris Harris Jr
- Earl Thomas/Harrison Smith and Danny Trevathan or Brandon Marshall (ILB)

You tell me which you would prefer. Wide receivers are overpaid.

playthrough2001 · Oct 18, 2017

The 2018 draft is going to have a number of excellent OTs and edge rushers near the top. After free agency, we'll have a much better idea of where Pace might be looking. I'd hate to see Pace pass on a top OT or edge for a wideout.

onebud34 · Oct 18, 2017

As far as FA wide receivers are concerned(and i don't know about availability of the 2018) Pace better grab an upper tier #2 that can also play the slot well.

That did wonders when we had Marshall/Jeffrey.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

playthrough2001 · Oct 18, 2017

bearsfan1977 said:
I agree-OLB is more important. Easier to draft a good WR in the 2nd or later than an OLB. If we are picking high and do not trade out of the spot, the only DB I'm taking is Minkah Fitzpatrick. Pass on Derwin James. Fitzpatrick can literally play any position in the backfield, and can do it all at an elite level.

Chubb, Key are interesting prospects in round 1. I love Lorenzo Carter, another UGA boy. He may last until the 2nd.

My favorite WR is Christian Kirk, or "Baby Beckham" as scouts call him. Great speed and hands, runs crisp routes, and can break a game open at any moment. Excellent kick returner, as well. Anthony Miller out of Memphis is the sleeper in this class, IMO. Kirk AND/or Kirk would be perfect for Trubs.

We need a C, badly. This has been discussed. Billy Price out of OSU in the 2nd.

So, options. Will be interesting to see which way Pace goes. I think I would go Chubb, Price, Miller, if we somehow get our 3rd back.

If you want a Center, check out Frank Ragnow from Arkansas.

TexasBearfan · Oct 18, 2017

ijustposthere said:
Like Markus Wheaton. Or Victor Cruz.

No, an established number 1.....Angelo went after moose and it helped

Leonard Floyd and the need to go OLB in 1st

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