Trubisky or Garoppolo Right Now.

To summarize things:
- Trubs wasn't NFL ready (lacked starting experience) and therefore was severely overdrafted
- he should have sat down and learn the nuances of pro-style game this whole season
- Bears can't really develop QB talent (especially with this current coaching staff), so they should have gone after one of more game ready QBs (like Watson or Garoppolo)
- bust rate is really high when inexperienced "Trubs QB types" end up with inept franchises like the Bears

bearmick said:

Here's my thing with Trubisky. I don't think he's bad in terms of talent. I think he's bad in that he's not NFL ready. I understand that he needed to come out this year, but honestly he's at the stage in his development where he really needed at least another year in school. He often looks lost in the pro-style game, in the pocket.

That's something that can and should get better with experience, but he's a QB who really needs to be well coached. He needs a really good QB coach to work on his mechanics and help him "feel" the game inside the pocket, and he needs a good OC to take advantage of his skillset and put him in the best position to be successful.

Most QBs need that, but he especially needs it because he's rawer and less developed than most rookie QBs who start in their first year.

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It was a HUGE risk for Pace to take him at the top of the draft. It can go either way at this point, but he will not develop correctly under the current staff. 100% agree.

He wasn't ready to play in the Pros. He was 100% drafted on potential. Pace will live and die as a GM by this IMO.

The Bears future is also in the hands of Trubisky. If he flops, we are set back a whole hell of a lot more than we already are.

number51 said:

I thought the word triggered accurately described the visceral reaction to any negative thoughts on Trubisky. I'm not sure that constitutes a diatribe, but I am pretty sure the Trubisky apologists want no part in a reality based discussion on his progress. It seems comparing players is no longer acceptable behavior on CCS.

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Really all I hear from them is Goff or Wentz comparable constantly. How's it them avoiding comparisons?

What do Brady and Rodgers 2 choices make for a case of them saying don't compare yet other 2 they keep saying.

I don't know what threads or topic this was in, but Sounds like you're just mad others aren't agreeing the way you want to say it should go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

BaBaBlacksheep said:

He had another year of eligibility left.

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Then he probably should have stayed in school. Maybe he figured this was as high as his stock was going to get.

bearmick said:

Then he probably should have stayed in school. Maybe he figured this was as high as his stock was going to get.

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He was older than most prospects, had a really good stat year, and next years draft class was supposedly much stronger. I'm sure he did come out on that basis.

Everything is a pissing match here, especially if you're not a Bears fan, and definitely if you are one. Thanks for posting some outside insight.

bearmick said:

Then he probably should have stayed in school. Maybe he figured this was as high as his stock was going to get.

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He went #2 overall. From his view point I'd say he made the right call.

I wish some of you would just relax and enjoy the ride already. The kid played like dogshit two games ago and then comes out this week going 12-15 with two dropped passes and a throwaway. No picks and a TD. It's not his fault he has an OC that sucks. It's not his fault his WR's suck. But for anyone with eyes to see he's out there throwing darts into tight coverage more times than not. I truly think the kid is special and I honestly have no idea how some of you don't see it.

He just needs some time to clean up that footwork, which will happen I have no doubt. The only thing that TRULY worries me about him is his inability to sense the rush. He takes a shit load of sacks and I hope that improves with time.

bearmick said:

This is yet another indictment on Ryan Pace. His evaluation of Glennon was so awful that the team was virtually forced to uproot the plan for his prize asset and throw him in before he was ready. If that ends up harming Trubisky's development even somewhat, it's a catastrophic balls up by Pace.

Remember Pace said he had coveted Glennon for years and always wanted him. This was a target he supposedly spent a considerable amount of time evaluating. Just think about that.

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I can't fully agree with this. I did expect Glennon to play better myself. However, Glennon is a game manager at best. Surely Pace didn't expect his starting WR corps to go down before the 1st game. We lost a couple OL players (starting G and backup G) early as well.

Recent articles have shown that the Bears have the hardest schedule in the NFL by far as well. I don't blame Pace for attacking the QB position after releasing Cutler. Then, on top of all the injuries (again), schedule, it hasn't been the greatest situation to groom a rookie QB that everyone knew didn't have a lot of experience.

Imo, the worst thing is Loggaines. He has done absolutely nothing to help groom Tru, or call plays that help him be successful. Pace has done a fine job. He just needs a coaching staff that can develop Tru properly and I think we'll see the results.

MakeMyDay said:

First I don't think he is a bad QB - But I don't know if he is good either...Don't think anyone does

Second - As far as whom got the better part of the deal - We have Tribusky under contract for the next 4 yrs - 9ers gave up a second rounder and the only QB under contract is CJ Beathard - Garoppolo is not under contract next year-

As it stands now you have earned the right to pay franchise price for a guy that scored 5 FG against a depleted defense...

In a nut shell you haven't paid for him yet - He could say No Thanks to your shit show and you would have to franchise him with at least Kirk Cousins money (+ add whatever up charge)

For perspective

"Kirk Cousins signed a 1 year, $23,943,600 contract with the Washington Redskins, including an average annual salary of $23,943,600. In 2017, Cousins will earn a base salary of $23,943,600, while carrying a cap hit of $23,943,600 and a dead cap value of $23,943,600."

So yea I like our position much much better because JG is every bit as unproven as our guy and a track record as fragile for a shit ton more money

Hope it works for you guys- but there is something to be said about building through the draft - Our guy is way to young to know what we have- and you guys are going to pay a very high price for a relative unknown

We just paid 14 Mil for a guy that played 4 games and will be cut next year...

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LOL. Wow.

Angry much?

For clarity, my point wasn't to say "yay, we got the better of you in the trade". Not at all.

The media narrative though has been that the 49ers fleeced the Bears in the trade and I think that's false. Trade was equal on trade chart and the Bears were playing other teams who saught to move up by pretending their pick was in play while they knew all along they were moving up. This made teams think they didn't need to deal with SF and thus preserved their pick of Trubisky.

If you want to look at what came in the trade though its really too early and complex to say.

Bears got Trubisky at 2.

49ers got DE Solomon Thomas, a three and a four last year and a 3 this upcoming year.
They packaged the 4 with their own 2 to move up for LB Reuben Foster.
They traded the 3 for the Saints 2 this year and a 7 last year.
With that 7 they drafted Adrian Colbert who started at Free Safety on Sunday.

That 2nd round pick from the Saints kinda gave the 49ers a green light to make the trade for Garoppolo since they had another 2 and another 3 from the Bears.

I'm thinking you don't really care but you braught up the teams positions on who got the better end...so there ya go. IMO way to early to say.

In terms of contract...well of course they still need to pay him. Thats the only reason he was even available for the price they paid. If he had several years left on the deal it would cost far, far more in draft compensation. In terms of him not wanting to be a part of the "sh*t show" as you put it...thats kinda comical.

1) Yeah, I'm sure he'd want no part of living an California and playing with one of the best Offensive minds in the NFL.
2) Even if he WANTED to leave, the 49ers can simply Franchise him. Oh no....whatever will they do. They are ONLY projected to be 100 mil or so under the cap so I hope they can afford the franchise tag. The NFL doesn't only have a salary cap. It also has a salary floor. Tagging him actually HELPS them reach that floor. This trade was made KNOWING he'd either sign long term or be tagged.
3) Yes, there is something to be said for building through the draft...which is why the Niners stockpiled picks. In moving from #2 to #3 thats exactly what they did and got 2 big pieces of their front 7 in the first round. Foster was just NFL defensive Rookie of the Month.
4) Fragile? In both College and the Pros he's been hurt ONCE.

Finally, my intent in posting here was NOT to get in a pissing match with Bears fans. It was not to say "we did better" or anything of the kind. I really like Garoppolo and what I saw from him on Sunday but I don't think at any point I've said anything disparaging about Trubisky. From a physical perspective, he's not all that dissimilar from Jimmy.

Anyway....Peace.

bearmick said:

Then he probably should have stayed in school. Maybe he figured this was as high as his stock was going to get.

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Based on him being taken #2, I think he made a good decision, don't you? Had the Bears not taken him, Tru still probably goes no later than the Cleveland pick, which could have totally changed Watson's situation as well. Again, Pace wanted him to sit for the entire year. At no point did he say anything different than that.

Bear Pride said:

Based on him being taken #2, I think he made a good decision, don't you?

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That depends. If another year in college would have given him a better chance to transition to the pro game, then no. We'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. The coaching hire is absolutely critical. Pace needs to get it right.

bearmick said:

Nobody said he can't get better. Just that he isn't good right now.

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I dont see any poster saying he is a good QB. What's being said is he flashes some good things...he also needs to work on things as well. Also give it time and then a real critique is warranted.

bearmick said:

That depends. If another year in college would have given him a better chance to transition to the pro game, then no. We'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. The coaching hire is absolutely critical. Pace needs to get it right.

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This

From what I see most of Trubisky's issues are coachable. Just that we have the wrong coaching staff for him right now.

bearmick said:

That depends. If another year in college would have given him a better chance to transition to the pro game, then no. We'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. The coaching hire is absolutely critical. Pace needs to get it right.

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I think he made a good choice. There are a lot of QB names coming out this year that could go higher than Tru might have gone this year. Didn't NC lose some players as well. It very well could have been a step backwords for him to stay another year.

Totally agree about Pace getting it right, however, but I'll add one thing - Pace needs to hire a coach or OC that is a legit QB developer that can call a creative play caller. HOWEVER, I don't want to hear any crap about the Bears becoming an offensive team identity wise.

I am never going to agree to that. The Bears must remain a defensive power house by nature. We are the Monsters of the Midway. Give me defense 1st! Then give a great offense to go along with that.

No more Trestman/Bears Offense experiments for me. This is why I'd love to keep Fangio and then bring in an HC that can call plays. I never want to see the Bears defense become secondary to an offensive rebuild again! uke:

Calabis said:

I dont see any poster saying he is a good QB. What's being said is he flashes some good things...he also needs to work on things as well. Also give it time and then a real critique is warranted.

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Yes, he needs time. But still, posters are going to have to get used to the fact that he's going to be discussed and analyzed on an ongoing basis throughout his career on a Bears discussion forum. He's the first round draft pick QB of the future and therefore the most critical player on the team, and will be for some time. People need to accept it and not wig out any time someone questions an aspect of his game.

BaBaBlacksheep said:

Cousins - Not available
Garoppolo - Not available until mid-season
Watson - Maybe that was the right pick. Or maybe Pace was smart enough to realize that Watson's injury risk was too high. Let's face it.... if we had Watson and he was injured this year people would be screaming for Pace's head after White's injury history. He was every bit as risky a pick as Trusibky, just for different reasons.

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Can you imagine how bad Watson would be on the bears that limit his passing opportunities to 3rd and long with him passing to the WRs that Trubisky has had to work with.. And then he gets injured! The Pace hatred would be higher then the Fox hatred.

Calabis said:

I dont see any poster saying he is a good QB. What's being said is he flashes some good things...he also needs to work on things as well. Also give it time and then a real critique is warranted.

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I think the best thing he's showed is his lack of committing turnovers/interceptions. He is clearly is throwing the ball away. He most likely is taking sacks cuz of that as well. I see his accuracy, even when it looks like he's making a bad pass, a lot of the time he's throwing it away. Imagine when the Bears actually call plays that will fool a defense!

Bear Pride said:

I think the best thing he's showed is his lack of committing turnovers/interceptions. He is clearly is throwing the ball away. He most likely is taking sacks cuz of that as well. I see his accuracy, even when it looks like he's making a bad pass, a lot of the time he's throwing it away. Imagine when the Bears actually call plays that will fool a defense!

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When you cite lack of turnovers as a positive perhaps I would suggest you look at the numbers and maybe open your mind to the certainty that you are actually dead wrong because there is more to turnovers than just interceptions.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...ite-at-taking-sacks-when-put-into-perspective

satchice said:

Can you imagine how bad Watson would be on the bears that limit his passing opportunities to 3rd and long with him passing to the WRs that Trubisky has had to work with.. And then he gets injured! The Pace hatred would be higher then the Fox hatred.

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LOL.

I know we spent months going back and forth pre-draft about the QBs, especially Watson. It's ok to accept that you were wrong. It happens to us all.

I give you credit for being one of the few posters who were adamant that Watson couldn't hack it in the NFL and actually stuck around the board after he showed he was lights out. We haven't seen hide nor hair of Luke and the others since. But you should drop the denial.

VashalasX said:

When you cite lack of turnovers as a positive perhaps I would suggest you look at the numbers and maybe open your mind to the certainty that you are actually dead wrong because there is more to turnovers than just interceptions.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...ite-at-taking-sacks-when-put-into-perspective

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Well Vash, I'd normally get on you a bit for this response, but I said I'd try to cut you some slack, so I will on this ONE. If you read again, you will notice that I typed turnovers/interceptions. That clearly separates turnovers from interceptions ... right?

I also mentioned that he IS taking sacks, and I also stated why. Soooo, I'm not sure why you felt the need to even make this post. Maybe you will realize why I take exception to some of your posts. However, have a nice day.