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  1. #1
    You Can Call Me Al Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Default The Tom Thibodeau Problem

    This, imo, is a major make or break year for the Bulls organization. The person with the most to lose is Tom Thibodeau. We all know the problems he's having with Gar (Again, just my opinion, but I think this is a MAJOR issue). The biggest problem, if I'm following the story correctly, is his overuse of starters during the regular season - and it's not a wrong opinion to have. When you look at the core of this team since Thibs became head coach:
    Derrick Rose: 110 regular season games missed
    Joakim Noah: 52 regular season games missed
    Luol Deng: 35 regular season games missed
    Taj Gibson*: 38 regular season games missed

    Point being, Thibs is going to have to trust this bench more than ever this year. Noah is already hampered by some injuries. You're best player off the bench, Kirk Hinrich**, is also hurting. How he manages these minutes is going to be a major thing to watch for this year.

    Now for the good news: Thibs is a top 5 coach*** in the league. Look at the development of Jimmy Butler. If, and this is a major if, Marquis Teague develops in the same way as Butler has (probably unlikely just due to the positions the two play) I'd be breathing much easier. Add in Tony Snell who I think can develop a lot quicker, plus a veteran in Dunleavy and you should feel a lot better. Again, this is all based on Thibs trust them.

    Now for the problem: If I'm the Bulls, I want home court. There is no way I wan to play the Pacers, and then the Heat in the playoffs. No sir, no way. Let those two beat each other up, and then the Bulls can get them in the ECF. But that might mean that you're looking at a lot of minutes of the four I mentioned above, plus Hinrich and Butler.

    That's the issue I see this year. I have a strong feeling the two Dick Tracy villains will be fighting all season long because of the minutes being played. Unfortunately, I think Gar will be the one that wins out in the end.


    * I do not consider Taj Gibson to be part of the core, but some of you might, so I included him.
    ** That should scare you.
    *** Top 2 really, but I don't want to come off as a homer.
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Rush
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    Anyway, I normally wouldn't allow a straight up thread just calling somebody a bitch, if it happens organically in a thread in a argument, we won't intervene. However, if it got Ole69 to post here.....I fully encourage this back & forth. Ole69 FTW.

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  3. #2
    Oh I member! Scoot26's Avatar
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    The minutes of course do concern me. That said, if a guy is healthy, he should play. With Noah not being healthy during pre-season I'd shut him down until he is as close to be to 100%.

    Also, Thibs has a habit of keeping his starters in even during blowouts. Sorry if you're up 20 points with 4 minutes to go in the game, Derrick Rose should not be in the ball game. Neither should Noah, Deng, Boozer, or even Jimmy. The time to play those guys heavy minutes is the playoffs, when we most need them.

    The guy I think who needs the most rest this year is Deng. He cannot keep this up as he has the past 3 seasons.

    I agree having that #1 seed is best given the competition in the east. It would be best for Miami and Indy to beat up each other in the 2nd round while we draw the ancient Brooklyn Nets or the overrated New York Knicks in the 2nd round (Not saying either team is a cake walk but IMO easily beatable in 6 games). So it'll be interesting to see...

    I also hope Thibodeau and Gar work something out, I wouldnt be surprised if they don't, seems our best coaches and management can never get a long for whatever reason. But as long as the Bulls win, I think its less of a problem.
    They pit the lifers against the new boy and the young against the old. The black against the white. Everything they do is to keep us in our place.


  4. #3
    You Can Call Me Al Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoot26 View Post
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    The minutes of course do concern me. That said, if a guy is healthy, he should play. With Noah not being healthy during pre-season I'd shut him down until he is as close to be to 100%.

    Also, Thibs has a habit of keeping his starters in even during blowouts. Sorry if you're up 20 points with 4 minutes to go in the game, Derrick Rose should not be in the ball game. Neither should Noah, Deng, Boozer, or even Jimmy. The time to play those guys heavy minutes is the playoffs, when we most need them.

    The guy I think who needs the most rest this year is Deng. He cannot keep this up as he has the past 3 seasons.

    I agree having that #1 seed is best given the competition in the east. It would be best for Miami and Indy to beat up each other in the 2nd round while we draw the ancient Brooklyn Nets or the overrated New York Knicks in the 2nd round (Not saying either team is a cake walk but IMO easily beatable in 6 games). So it'll be interesting to see...

    I also hope Thibodeau and Gar work something out, I wouldnt be surprised if they don't, seems our best coaches and management can never get a long for whatever reason. But as long as the Bulls win, I think its less of a problem.
    The two things in bold are the biggest issue with Thibs. Yes of course if a guy is healthy he should play. My issue being, on back to back nights (and I don't know how many of those are going to happen this year), you're going to need to trust Tony Snell to spell Deng and Butler a little bit more, and Teague with Rose. I'm fine with Deng playing 42 minutes one game, I'm not alright with him playing another 42 the next night.
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Rush
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    Anyway, I normally wouldn't allow a straight up thread just calling somebody a bitch, if it happens organically in a thread in a argument, we won't intervene. However, if it got Ole69 to post here.....I fully encourage this back & forth. Ole69 FTW.

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  6. #4
    Dick Laurent Is Dead Axl Rose's Avatar
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    Thibs is hard headed in his ways and i dont think its gonna change....hes been criticized for this for awhile now and he still hasn't ....he played Jimmy Butler 42 minutes fresh off of Knee Tendinitis in a meaningless pre-season game

  7. #5
    CCS Donator BNB's Avatar
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    I have an issue with Thibs playing guys when the game is out of hand. We can be down like 20 with 4 minutes left and the starters are out there.. Sometimes you just gotta take the L and give your players a break.

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    Senior Member Raskolnikov's Avatar
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    He is a hard man influenced by some legendary hard men in Rivers, Garnett, Pierce, and gang. They play the warrior mentality, and I think it shows in the effort you saw from us last year playoffs.

    It has its place, just not in the regular season. Thibs doesn't want that softness to even creep into a player a little.

    I agree with you though PB. good post.

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    Well if Tom dont work out and ends up getting canned for wutever reason, theres always PHIL JACKSON.
    Best believe Phil would love coaching Jimmy, Noah and Rose...........



    Especially if against all odds, it could bring Lebron here.

    A for sure party in Grant Park fo shizzle my nizzles.
    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-28-2013 at 10:52 PM.

  10. #8
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    Hello!!!!!!!!

    I love Thibbs too and im sure Phil respects him.
    Therefore phil can hire Tom as his lead assistent.
    They would be the most feared and unstoppable coaching duo in NBA history.


    Think big and going for the impossible is the ways of the SP94 legend.

    Id even offer my expert services if Phil needs my glamour.
    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-28-2013 at 10:58 PM.

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  12. #9
    Richard Cranium ursamajor's Avatar
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    I don't think Jackson wants to coach right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ursamajor View Post
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    I don't think Jackson wants to coach right now.
    Maybe right now.
    But Phils known to change his mind over and over and over again.
    In the case of Thibbs being let go under any circumstance, i see the potential and opportunity that would be left for Phils grabbing.....Plus Phil and John paxson have a mutual respect in which im sure Pax would at least consider it in his thought, same with Phil.
    After all, its well known what an opportunist Phil is......and no ego matches his.....Chicago, Best point guard in league, Noah(the type of player Phil loves), Butler who could be molded into a Pippen like player under Phils guidence, and a Blockbuster market, city and franchise that Phils familiar with and has had alot of success with.........Just sayin.

    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-29-2013 at 03:27 AM.

  14. #11
    Senior Member Raskolnikov's Avatar
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    Phil going back to Chicago could complete his circle. His 12th. His crown. But Maybe Phil would have to be the assistant.

    That said, Scottie is right on this. The triangle offense plus Thibs defense= holy hell to deal with.

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  16. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    Phil going back to Chicago could complete his circle. His 12th. His crown. But Maybe Phil would have to be the assistant.

    That said, Scottie is right on this. The triangle offense plus Thibs defense= holy hell to deal with.
    Logic tells me Thibbs would be so upset he would never want to work for Chicago again.
    He takes basketball very personally, and being demoted wouldnt make sense in his case, when just about every team in the league needing a coach would be blowing up his phone for the HEAD coaching job..........I dont see Thibbs settling for less.
    And Phil certainly wouldnt answer to Thibbs.....Any show Phil is in, he runs, period.......

    BUT, i could definately see Phil calling on Scottie Pippen for an assistant position.
    Its well known that Scotties one of Phils favorite players he ever coached, despite the infamous 7 seconds which they squashed and came to terms with in less than 24 hours after that awful moment......Phil had alot of love, and still does for Scottie.....Had any other player sat out for 7 seconds against Phils wishes, Phil would of been done with them forever....Not Scottie though...tThere relationship has always been great, almost father sonlike......
    Coaching Pippen to coach, would come naturally.
    Would be a perfect fit.
    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-29-2013 at 03:40 AM.

  17. #13
    Dick Laurent Is Dead Axl Rose's Avatar
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    Phil and Thibs would be ridiculous

  18. #14
    Richard Cranium ursamajor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tom Thibodeau Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by scottiepippen1994 View Post
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    Maybe right now.
    But Phils known to change his mind over and over and over again.
    In the case of Thibbs being let go under any circumstance, i see the potential and opportunity that would left for Phils grabbing.
    After all, its well known what an opportunist Phil is......and no ego matches his.........Just sayin.
    I suppose you can never say never.

    Phil may be moot. If Butler pans out, and Mirotic comes over next season, the Bulls will put a strangle hold on the league.

    I know that FA moves are exciting, but if you look at the heart and soul of this team (which is right at the threshold of a Championship) it was built through the draft. Boozer is the weakest link of the starting 5-and since he was a FA, he cost to much. There is a laying benefit in building a contender through the draft.

    A line up of Noah, Mirotic, Deng, Butler, and Rose, could truly be epic. I really hope that Jimmy can turn that corner offensively. Defensively, he has the ability to piss in the Cheerios of any 2 Guard in the league, and can guard forwards. Athletically, he is the equal of any 2 guard-scary when you consider that he is 6'7". He will most likely be the key, and after Rose, the most important player on the team.

    And as for me beating the drum on Mirotic, well he is that final piece. Boozer is serviceable, but Nikola is the Forward we need to get over the hump with Bosh. Boozer has limited, range offensively. He has horrible lateral movement. Is a liability if he has to put the ball on the floor, and is a lazy defender. Nikola is his superior in everything but rebounding (Boozer holds a slight edge). But that will be fixed in short order, because Nikola is a high energy, high effort player. And he has handles like Durant. If you have not watched him extensively, I suggest you do.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ursamajor; 10-29-2013 at 03:54 AM.

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  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poohdini View Post
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    Phil and Thibs would be ridiculous



    So would Phil and Pippen.

    If it ever happened, Phil wouldnt stick around for more than 2 seasons because of age, which would leave the door open for Pip, if he was an assistent under Phil.
    Scottie Pippen coaching the Chicago Bulls has always been a personal dream of mine, and probably his too.
    Scottie has always spoke out about his desire to coach one day.
    Scottie even offered his services after Vinny got canned.
    Scottie was like a floor coach when he was a player, and with his pointguard-like mentality and high basketball IQ, coaching may someday come to Pip naturally.
    And who better to bring Scottie under his wing than Phil himself.

    I was actually very dissapointed that Thibbs didnt even consider or even ask Pip to be an assistent of his.
    Thats one thing thats always kind of bothered and dissapointed me about Thibbs, considering Thibbs is all about defense..
    Scottie Pippen may be the greatest wing defender in the history of the game.

    Just imagine what Scottie could do with Butler.
    Its scarey to think about man.
    The thought gives me goose bumps and makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.
    With Phils triangle offense, and Pippens PHD in Johnny Bach defensive schooling, Pip could become the next Phils new version of Johnny Bach potentially.

    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-29-2013 at 04:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poohdini View Post
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    Phil and Thibs would be ridiculous
    Hey man, could you imagine your boy B.G in Phil Jacksons Triangle offense?


  22. #17
    Senior Member Bear06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottiepippen1994 View Post
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    Hey man, could you imagine your boy B.G in Phil Jacksons Triangle offense?

    What's good SP94? Haven't talked to you since the playoffs.

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  24. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear06 View Post
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    What's good SP94? Haven't talked to you since the playoffs.
    Wutz up my man?
    I wondered what happened to ya.
    nice to see ya.
    Last edited by scottiepippen1994; 10-29-2013 at 05:40 AM.

  25. #19
    The World is Yours TonyMontana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoot26 View Post
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    I also hope Thibodeau and Gar work something out, I wouldnt be surprised if they don't, seems our best coaches and management can never get a long for whatever reason. But as long as the Bulls win, I think its less of a problem.
    The problem is this has been the case since Reinsdorf's owned the team and you can expand it if you look at the White Sox during the Ken Williams/Ozzie Guillen era. If anyone here has read Dave Halberstram's book about Michael Jordan called Playing For Keeps it shows how Jerry undermined Doug Collins' authority when Doug was the HC of the team and we know how the Krause-Phil relationship ended. Hell, dumbass Paxson threw a punch at Vinny del Negro over coincidentally the same thing we're talking about here (players coming off injury needing to have their minutes in regular season games limited). That's five battles between coaching and management under Jerry Reinsdorf's ownership and four since he took over the Bulls. The two main problems are Jerry doesn't sit the two camps down and tell them to act like adults and when push comes to shove he always backs the GM and his allies over the coaching and players (again see the breakup of the Dynasty of the late 90's).
    I'm with Prope er Pretentious Bastard here. I want to see Gar and Thibs patch things up and have a cordial professional bond. I just don't see a reason to believe this will happen.
    I ain't never fucked over anybody in my life who didn't have it coming to them.

  26. #20
    Senior Member Cerebral's Avatar
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    My biggest problems with Thibs are this, like somebody earlier posted, if you're up rest your starters. If they start to chip at the lead put one or two starters in. In fact, I believe when Rose tore his ACL, they were up by 10 with a minute or so left. My BIGGEST problem with Thibs is this, if a guy is hurt fine don't play them, but if the medical staff says he's good to go, Thibs rides him like a roller coaster. That shouldn't be. Just because a guy is good to go, doesn't mean he doesn't have a lingering health issue or is 100%
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  27. #21
    You Can Call Me Al Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
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    My biggest problems with Thibs are this, like somebody earlier posted, if you're up rest your starters. If they start to chip at the lead put one or two starters in. In fact, I believe when Rose tore his ACL, they were up by 10 with a minute or so left. My BIGGEST problem with Thibs is this, if a guy is hurt fine don't play them, but if the medical staff says he's good to go, Thibs rides him like a roller coaster. That shouldn't be. Just because a guy is good to go, doesn't mean he doesn't have a lingering health issue or is 100%
    Three minutes to go and I believe that lead was done from 18. Different case to be made because we are talking playoffs and you wanted to bury them. I had no issue with Rose in the game at that point.
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Rush
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    Anyway, I normally wouldn't allow a straight up thread just calling somebody a bitch, if it happens organically in a thread in a argument, we won't intervene. However, if it got Ole69 to post here.....I fully encourage this back & forth. Ole69 FTW.

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  29. #22
    Oh I member! Scoot26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretentousBastard View Post
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    Three minutes to go and I believe that lead was done from 18. Different case to be made because we are talking playoffs and you wanted to bury them. I had no issue with Rose in the game at that point.
    Bulls were up 20 with 5 minutes to go, Rose went down at 1:09 with a 12 points lead. That said, I wouldn't have taken him out either.
    They pit the lifers against the new boy and the young against the old. The black against the white. Everything they do is to keep us in our place.


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