Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame

xer0h0ur · Jan 20, 2018

WindyCity said:
I think that they will still draft a WR,

But if you take Nelson at 8, you have 39 to fill WR, CB and OLB unless you make a couple of serious moves in free agency.

The real issue is that OLB sucks in free agency. If the Bears go Nelson at 8, they certainly need to prioritize the OLB at 39.

I mean, realistically if you're trying to pick up draft picks and still grab some starter talent then you have to hope for quarterbacks getting pushed down the draft board towards our #8 spot to get a trade partner that will pay well for the Bears passing up their pick of a pass rusher or offensive lineman. IMO the best value will be had with that #39 overall pick so I would be more reluctant to trading that pick versus the #8 overall pick. To that end the Browns' shenanigans will make that first round of the draft interesting to say the least. God knows what stupid shit they do.

As it stands we have #8 overall (1st round), #39 overall (picking 7th in the 2nd round), no 3rd round pick, #101 overall and #111 overall (picking 5th and 15th in the 4th round), #136 overall (picking 8th in the 5th round), #167 overall (picking 7th in the 6th round), and #198 overall (picking 6th in the 7th round)

napo55 · Jan 20, 2018

Can you get a quality OG in the second round, or with one of the fourth round picks? If so, there are needs at WR, OLB, and CB that are more important. In other words, you have to look at both depth and quality in the draft and at team needs and then make a rational decision.

xer0h0ur · Jan 20, 2018

I am nearly certain most of the guards in this draft are going to be 2nd rounders and beyond. There aren't many like Nelson that are no question worth a first round pick.

Midway Fields · Jan 20, 2018

FirstTimer said:
I already responded. His comps make no sense. (He inserted Alshon Jeffery and Antonio Brown into discussion) He directly said you can find players like that in rounds outside if the first. I asked him who he thought the Bears could find this year in the draft that were comparable to those guys. He provided none because he doesn't watch college football.

There's zero left to say at this point. Xero can't continue the conversation.

He doesn't like Ridley as a prospect(based on what no one knows)..but either way that's fine. But he's completely unable to articulate and defend finding other WR's in this class if he doesn't like Ridley. I'm fine discussing other players, but he has presented none...because he can't.

So instead he devolves into "you're a troll, Rory, etc". Whatever. I'm not doing it anymore. If he wants to actually intelligently discuss players and options. Fine. But so far the take away is; Ridley, to him, isn't a first rounder or a high pick....and he can't name other players the Bears can get after the first round at the position because he doesn't watch college football.

Ok. Good talk.

My problem with Ridley is I don’t think his upside is a top 10 player at his position in the NFL. If your going draft a position in the top 10 that is not considered a premium position your upside better be elite otherwise you can’t justify the pick. Which is why I bet Pace attacks WR in free agency.

But maybe you think Ridley can be a top 10 #1 WR in the NFL? You’d be wrong but maybe you think that.

Midway Fields · Jan 20, 2018

dabears70 said:
Well for one i never said i was confident in Ridley so there's that and i could also see two of the WR's being better then Ridley will be so why would i take that bet dummy? I'm just not the kind of guy that ACTS like i know what any kid coming out of college will be in the NFL since not even the GM's that do this for a living can do that so i damn sure know that no fan can do it and be right. Now of course it's real easy to see which of these kids had great college careers and to watch espn and any other sports network or to go on the internet to see who all these so called draft experts are saying about any of these kids and just go off of all that on who i think will be great NFL players or where i think they'll get drafted but it's still just a guessing game.

About you getting your business from daddy. I wish i had parents that had money or a successful business to hand down to me but i never had any of that and have had to actually work for everything i have, and i don't have much. I own a small business that i won't get rich off of but i can live comfortably off of it and to know i did it by myself is something that brings some joy to me, but would i rather have a more successful business handed down to me that could be a hand me down business for my kids and their kids and their kids kids?? Absolutely i'd rather have that and am somewhat jealous of you and other kids who are lucky enough to have rich parents and know they'll be set for the rest of their/your lives. So you say it sucks to be me, maybe it does suck to be me but i'll take what i can get.

Quit being a pussy.

rawdawg · Jan 20, 2018

Midway Mitch said:
My problem with Ridley is I don’t think his upside is a top 10 player at his position in the NFL. If your going draft a position in the top 10 that is not considered a premium position your upside better be elite otherwise you can’t justify the pick. Which is why I bet Pace attacks WR in free agency.

But maybe you think Ridley can be a top 10 #1 WR in the NFL? You’d be wrong but maybe you think that.

He's a great route runner, but he's not Antonio Brown. He doesn't have the Height/Weight/Speed combo of Julio, Evans or AJ Green. Not going to be as good as Hopkins or Beckham. But I don't see why he can't be as good as any other WR in the league.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

WindyCity · Jan 20, 2018

xer0h0ur said:
I mean, realistically if you're trying to pick up draft picks and still grab some starter talent then you have to hope for quarterbacks getting pushed down the draft board towards our #8 spot to get a trade partner that will pay well for the Bears passing up their pick of a pass rusher or offensive lineman. IMO the best value will be had with that #39 overall pick so I would be more reluctant to trading that pick versus the #8 overall pick. To that end the Browns' shenanigans will make that first round of the draft interesting to say the least. God knows what stupid shit they do.

As it stands we have #8 overall (1st round), #39 overall (picking 7th in the 2nd round), no 3rd round pick, #101 overall and #111 overall (picking 5th and 15th in the 4th round), #136 overall (picking 8th in the 5th round), #167 overall (picking 7th in the 6th round), and #198 overall (picking 6th in the 7th round)

I dont think you are going to get for sure starters.

But I think there is value in throwing multiple mid round picks at a position. If you have a 20% chance of finding a starter you might as well give yourself 2 shots at hitting the 20%.

Plus the 2nd round trade down is becoming a Pace tradition.

xer0h0ur · Jan 20, 2018

Hugh? You've just watched Pace draft a starter free safety as well as versatile back in the 4th round and a PB caliber starter back in the 5th round the year before that. So you're having doubts about being able to get a starter from a first round trade down that would still leave you with a first round pick anyways and a 2nd round pick that highly likely can be a starter as well?

What I am suggesting is trading down in the first round to pick up extra picks, still get a starter from the first round and keep your 2nd round pick which is a great 2nd round pick that very likely represents fantastic value of a potential first round graded talent having slid to that spot.

I mean either way I trust Pace at this point in the draft. He's going to do his thing regardless of any scenarios we scheme up. I just don't have a problem per say with going the route I suggested. It just would sting a bit if we ended up passing up on a perceived can't miss talent up there at #8 overall to trade down.

dabears70 · Jan 20, 2018

xer0h0ur said:
I mean, realistically if you're trying to pick up draft picks and still grab some starter talent then you have to hope for quarterbacks getting pushed down the draft board towards our #8 spot to get a trade partner that will pay well for the Bears passing up their pick of a pass rusher or offensive lineman. IMO the best value will be had with that #39 overall pick so I would be more reluctant to trading that pick versus the #8 overall pick. To that end the Browns' shenanigans will make that first round of the draft interesting to say the least. God knows what stupid shit they do.

As it stands we have #8 overall (1st round), #39 overall (picking 7th in the 2nd round), no 3rd round pick, #101 overall and #111 overall (picking 5th and 15th in the 4th round), #136 overall (picking 8th in the 5th round), #167 overall (picking 7th in the 6th round), and #198 overall (picking 6th in the 7th round)

The Browns do actually have a legit GM in there now in J.Dorsey so i'm not expecting anything too crazy to happen but i guess you never know. Gotta think they get a QB and S.Barkley or one of the two and a beast of a defender. If they don't get a QB with one of those two picks then either they believe in D.Kizer or J.Dorsey will be just as bad as all their other GM's.

dabears70 · Jan 20, 2018

Midway Mitch said:
Quit being a pussy.

Midway Bitch...lol

dawags · Jan 20, 2018

The more I think about the Nelson pick, the more I like it. Long may need 2 more surgeries and Kush's hammy injury sounded pretty serious. Compton and Sowell, while mediocrely versatile, were OTs in college and on every other pro team they played for. Nagy will have to make some adjustments to the team he inherited. We are not KC. With Howard, we are a power running team. Bring out the checkbook and pay Fuller and Amakamura, we could do worse. Lessen the other holes with the draft and FA. I'D love for them to get Fangio his edge rusher but it might not be in the cards this year. With the future of the franchise resting in Trubs, keeping him alive is the number one priority. Who knows, maybe 8 men in the box will work well for Nagy and Helfrich's verticle passing attack.

WindyCity · Jan 21, 2018

xer0h0ur said:
Hugh? You've just watched Pace draft a starter free safety as well as versatile back in the 4th round and a PB caliber starter back in the 5th round the year before that. So you're having doubts about being able to get a starter from a first round trade down that would still leave you with a first round pick anyways and a 2nd round pick that highly likely can be a starter as well?

What I am suggesting is trading down in the first round to pick up extra picks, still get a starter from the first round and keep your 2nd round pick which is a great 2nd round pick that very likely represents fantastic value of a potential first round graded talent having slid to that spot.

I mean either way I trust Pace at this point in the draft. He's going to do his thing regardless of any scenarios we scheme up. I just don't have a problem per say with going the route I suggested. It just would sting a bit if we ended up passing up on a perceived can't miss talent up there at #8 overall to trade down.

I have doubts about whether we can turn a 4th round pick into a starter year 1. But I think there is value in adding more of those guys and increasing your odds

Trading down in the 1st is very difficult. It also means you would not get Nelson which was the point of the conversation.

If they could work a trade down in the 1st I would be all for it, as long as we are cool with the fact that there will be a talent downgrade in the player we pick.

For me the talent drop off in the 2nd is usually less, dropping 6-8 spots usually doesn’t change the level of player you are getting.

WindyCity · Jan 21, 2018

Make a couple strong moves at WR and CB to fill starting spots.

1(8) OG Quenton Nelson

*Trade: 2(39) dropping to 2(46) nets you a 4th round pick and maybe a 7th. That gives you another swing at a need position.

2(46) OLB Marvell Frazier

4. WR Daeseasn Hamilton

4. OLB Devin Bellamy

4. OT Anthony Parker

5. CB

6. NT

7. TE

gallagher · Jan 21, 2018

WindyCity said:
I keep thinking about Quenton Nelson and I really think the Bears can draft him, but there would be a couple of things that would have to happen,

1. You would need to be active in free agency to fix WR and CB, you can't have those as massive needs heading into the draft because you won't have the premium picks to deal with them.

2. You need to seriously look at trading down in the 2nd round. If you cannot throw quality at a couple of serious need spots than throw quantity at them.

3. You need to be realistic about 2018. If you want to compete than take an OLB or CB that will be an immediate upgrade in 2018. Nelson is probably going to be a lateral move in 2018 over Sitton. He will more than likely be better for the next 10 years, but he will not be an immediate massive upgrade like and OLB over whoever is playing that spot.

(1) Yeah this team better make multiple signings at WR in FA. I dont see a man under contract for us right now that I can count on as a reliable starter. As for CB, I wouldnt be shocked if Pace resigned both Amukamara and Fuller to hold the fort. Fuller deserves a longer contract (I think) and Prince can be held onto for a short term contract to prevent the creation of a problem.

(2) I wouldnt be surprised to move down in the second. It's practically a tradition at this point, and Pace has shown a good eye for value in the second round. Goldman and Whitehair are studs, and Shaheen has the physical tools to dominate at TE. Trade down, grab a third rounder as compensation, and nab a good value player.

(3) I think being realistic about 2018 is another sub .500 year regardless of who we take in the first. We have recently seen a few teams have a one-year turnaround, but the Bears just dont have the talent on roster right now to make that kind of leap. If Trubisky takes a huge step and we get a good pool of FAs, then maybe we do better. But whether we take Nelson, Ridley, any of the CBs, or whoever at 8, I have a hard time predicting more than 6 wins.

dennehy · Jan 21, 2018

gallagher said:
(1) Yeah this team better make multiple signings at WR in FA. I dont see a man under contract for us right now that I can count on as a reliable starter. As for CB, I wouldnt be shocked if Pace resigned both Amukamara and Fuller to hold the fort. Fuller deserves a longer contract (I think) and Prince can be held onto for a short term contract to prevent the creation of a problem.

Kevin White is the only WR under contact right now. Meredith, Bellamy, Wright, and Inman are all FAs. So it's likely they'll sign at least 4 FA WRs and possibly 5.

Edit: forgot Wheaton, but I just assume he's gone, and Mizzell, who might be as well.

iueyedoc · Jan 21, 2018

Colonel_Buendia said:
Keep an eye on Tyrell Crosby, Oregon's LT. 6'5" 320. Missed 2016 with a broken foot but was PFF's #1 pass blocking OT in 2017 and PFF's #1 returning run-blocking OL in 2015. Excelled in Herzlich's spread offense. Team captain, humble kid, plays fast and mean.

Red Flag.

Noonthirtyjoe · Jan 21, 2018

Were not fixing everything in one draft. Get Nelson and build for the future. Solidify that line for the future with Nelson.

Bearly · Jan 21, 2018

WindyCity said:
I have doubts about whether we can turn a 4th round pick into a starter year 1. But I think there is value in adding more of those guys and increasing your odds

Trading down in the 1st is very difficult. It also means you would not get Nelson which was the point of the conversation.

If they could work a trade down in the 1st I would be all for it, as long as we are cool with the fact that there will be a talent downgrade in the player we pick.

For me the talent drop off in the 2nd is usually less, dropping 6-8 spots usually doesn’t change the level of player you are getting.

It can when you're picking as early as we are in that round. Drafts are fluid and these wrote answers just don't work. That said, I like addressing G with a late round pick and doing it often and hope one develops. We already have Morgan from last year. Adding another T to try and convert to G in the 5th or later if the value is there is a nice way to address the position unless the cupboard is bare and ours isn't.

iueyedoc · Jan 21, 2018

WindyCity said:
I know the positional value thing burns him.

But I would love to roll out an OL and DL that are just full of big ass kickers.

I know I didn't play at the level you did but that seems like a horrible idea. How would that work?

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xer0h0ur · Jan 21, 2018

WindyCity said:
I have doubts about whether we can turn a 4th round pick into a starter year 1. But I think there is value in adding more of those guys and increasing your odds

Trading down in the 1st is very difficult. It also means you would not get Nelson which was the point of the conversation.

If they could work a trade down in the 1st I would be all for it, as long as we are cool with the fact that there will be a talent downgrade in the player we pick.

For me the talent drop off in the 2nd is usually less, dropping 6-8 spots usually doesn’t change the level of player you are getting.

Honestly these conversations have been all over the place so I lose track of which scenario we are talking about. The aforementioned suggestion was assuming we weren't going to get Nelson because he's either taken or a QB dropped to our #8 spot making a trade partner for #8 possible. I understand what you're saying about talent not dropping much in the 2nd round but given how early our pick is in the 2nd round and the inevitability that some first round picks will be reaches by teams then I practically expect there to be first round graded talent available to us at #39 overall. This is what I mean by that pick potentially representing high value.

I think we have both already come to the conclusion we would love some more beef block up front. To that end Nelson would make both of us happy.

Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame

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