IST: Cubs @ Reds

Omeletpants · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
Consensus from who? Definitely wasn't my consensus and never has been. I think Russell is a better albeit not as flashy defender than Baez and I think he's proven more with the bat at a younger age. People forget how young Russell is. He's only 24 this year. Bryant's break out MVP year was his age 24 year. Russell's K rate was 20.4% in spring training. He's at 8.7% in the 5 games thus far in the regular season with an absurd 17.4% walk rate. He's also hitting .278/.435/.389. Think this is the year Russell is going to break out.

I just remember a lot of people talking about Russell's below average arm and that Baez was a better defender and more power and higher BA potential

chibears55 · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
So, I'm gonna pose a question. If you were to make a move to get one player in july who would it be? I've talked about my thought that the front office is going to go for some sort of outside the box type trade. Effectively I was thinking about the team playing like they have as the rationale. Last year they were a team full of good players they felt like they didn't fit together. For example, as much as I may not be Baez's biggest fan the guy clearly has talent.

Anyways in that light, who you got if you could add one player to the cubs in a semi-plausible trade.

First if they do plan on dealing Heyward, theyll wait til after the season to first see if he'll opt out ..
If not, then theyll have more time in offseason to figure out the money part of it in a deal.

If they do something big at the deadline.
I think it will be for a CFer, if neither Happ and or Almora takes control by then...

As far as trade chips...
Have to think besides some of the minor league arms..
Caratini Baez Happ Almora and very small chance Heyward could be options..

Plus IMO...
I think they would prefer to keep Russell over Baez if they had to choose between the two to keep and trade the other..

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beckdawg · Apr 3, 2018

chibears55 said:
First if they do plan on dealing Heyward, theyll wait til after the season to first see if he'll opt out ..
If not, then theyll have more time in offseason to figure out the money part of it in a deal.

If they do something big at the deadline.
I think it will be for a CFer, if neither Happ and or Almora takes control by then...

As far as trade chips...
Have to think besides some of the minor league arms..
Caratini Baez Happ Almora and very small chance Heyward could be options..

Plus IMO...
I think they would prefer to keep Russell over Baez if they had to choose between the two to keep and trade the other..

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The problem with CF isn't the idea it's more the "who" you go after. For example, would Ender Inciarte really be that much of an upgrade over Almora? He was worth 3 wins last year and Almroa on a full season pace would have been worth around 2.5. I can sorta see the idea if the price was right having them be a two headed platoon(Inciarte is LH) but I'd honestly rather they just play Almora. There's the Red Sox OF but I don't see the match up of needs between them and the cubs. Cards aren't trading Pham. Dodgers aren't trading Taylor. Milwalkee isn't trading Yelich. Houston isn't trading Springer. Milwalkee also isn't trading Cain. Twins aren't trading Buxton. Maybe the Rockies would consider dealing Blackmon but he's a FA after the season and I'm not sure how real the past 2 years are for him. Plus he's a horrible CF defensively. That's sort of the issue with CF. Who's really out there? The guys that can be had are typically one or the other of defense/offense and not both. Seattle trying to upgrade their CF had to trade for Gordon who was a 2B.

chibears55 · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
The problem with CF isn't the idea it's more the "who" you go after. For example, would Ender Inciarte really be that much of an upgrade over Almora? He was worth 3 wins last year and Almroa on a full season pace would have been worth around 2.5. I can sorta see the idea if the price was right having them be a two headed platoon(Inciarte is LH) but I'd honestly rather they just play Almora. There's the Red Sox OF but I don't see the match up of needs between them and the cubs. Cards aren't trading Pham. Dodgers aren't trading Taylor. Milwalkee isn't trading Yelich. Houston isn't trading Springer. Milwalkee also isn't trading Cain. Twins aren't trading Buxton. Maybe the Rockies would consider dealing Blackmon but he's a FA after the season and I'm not sure how real the past 2 years are for him. Plus he's a horrible CF defensively. That's sort of the issue with CF. Who's really out there? The guys that can be had are typically one or the other of defense/offense and not both. Seattle trying to upgrade their CF had to trade for Gordon who was a 2B.

There always a surprise who at the deadline..

Sometimes you can grab a hot player that becomes available

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beckdawg · Apr 3, 2018

chibears55 said:
There always a surprise who at the deadline..

Sometimes you can grab a hot player that becomes available

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Even if a play is hot I just don't think CF has many good players there and the teams who do have that sort of guy presumably are also likely to be in the race.

CSF77 · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
Consensus from who? Definitely wasn't my consensus and never has been. I think Russell is a better albeit not as flashy defender than Baez and I think he's proven more with the bat at a younger age. People forget how young Russell is. He's only 24 this year. Bryant's break out MVP year was his age 24 year. Russell's K rate was 20.4% in spring training. He's at 8.7% in the 5 games thus far in the regular season with an absurd 17.4% walk rate. He's also hitting .278/.435/.389. Think this is the year Russell is going to break out.

Russell injured his shoulder last year and lost on his throw. That is all Baez had on him. Baez is a decent SS but his talent is more suited at 2B or 3B. SS he is more prone to make “effort” errors.

Russell is smoother and has better technique where he puts low effort into the play and it makes it look easy. While Baez looks like a race car out there on the redline. Looks good but lacks the fine control which leads to broken I-pads.

SilenceS · Apr 3, 2018

People are funny with their analysis of players. I like to throw my spaghetti at the wall as well.

beckdawg · Apr 3, 2018

SilenceS said:
People are funny with their analysis of players. I like to throw my spaghetti at the wall as well.

Mom's spaghetti? Do you only got one shot?

SilenceS · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
Mom's spaghetti? Do you only got one shot?

Vomited already moms spaghetti

SilenceS · Apr 3, 2018

Give me Javy or give me death.

This video is gnarly.

[video=youtube;ySyc084-x_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyc084-x_8[/video]

beckdawg · Apr 3, 2018

SilenceS said:
Give me Javy or give me death.

This video is gnarly.

[video=youtube;ySyc084-x_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyc084-x_8[/video]

Javy makes some fantastic plays but for my money there's not many if any better than russell at gobbling up balls on the infield. He wont beat Javy in terms of arm but in terms of fielding errors they're almost nonexistent with russell. He has 9 in 2587.0 innings at SS. Most of his errors come on his throws(21). Baez in 1074.1 innings at SS has 8 fielding errors and 10 throwing. So, if you project Javy over the same number of innings. he's got roughly the same number of throwing errors but more than double the fielding errors.

And to me that's what it comes down to. Clearly Javy is a good maybe even great defender. But I think Russell does it so smoothly people over look just how absurdly good he is. It's not sexy to make the routine play look routine but that's what the best defenders do. If you wanna talk defensive metrics, on his career Russell is at .839 RZR or 84% of plays in his "zone" are made. Since he debuted, Russell is best in baseball at that.

Javy probably makes more plays outside his zone than Russell does(i.e. highlight reel plays) but it's not like Russell is bad at that either. He has 163 OOZ plays in those 2.5k innings since debuting in 2015. Most of the "full time" SS have around 4k innings. If you assume he makes those plays at the same rate over the additional 1.5k innings he'd be at around 250 which is within range of the top 5 guys since 2015.

chibears55 · Apr 3, 2018

beckdawg said:
Javy makes some fantastic plays but for my money there's not many if any better than russell at gobbling up balls on the infield. He wont beat Javy in terms of arm but in terms of fielding errors they're almost nonexistent with russell. He has 9 in 2587.0 innings at SS. Most of his errors come on his throws(21). Baez in 1074.1 innings at SS has 8 fielding errors and 10 throwing. So, if you project Javy over the same number of innings. he's got roughly the same number of throwing errors but more than double the fielding errors.

And to me that's what it comes down to. Clearly Javy is a good maybe even great defender. But I think Russell does it so smoothly people over look just how absurdly good he is. It's not sexy to make the routine play look routine but that's what the best defenders do. If you wanna talk defensive metrics, on his career Russell is at .839 RZR or 84% of plays in his "zone" are made. Since he debuted, Russell is best in baseball at that.

Javy probably makes more plays outside his zone than Russell does(i.e. highlight reel plays) but it's not like Russell is bad at that either. He has 163 OOZ plays in those 2.5k innings since debuting in 2015. Most of the "full time" SS have around 4k innings. If you assume he makes those plays at the same rate over the additional 1.5k innings he'd be at around 250 which is within range of the top 5 guys since 2015.

What Russell lacks in arm strength he makes it up with quickness in release...

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chibears55 · Apr 3, 2018

Game postponed......

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brett05 · Apr 4, 2018

Where's Javy's IPad throw?

fatbeard · Apr 4, 2018

This is quality trolling.

Parade_Rain · Apr 4, 2018

After hitting a home run on the first pitch he saw this season, Happ acknowledged he may have gotten too pull happy, which has contributed to a 1-for-15 slump since the blast, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

CBS Sports: Cubs' Ian Happ: Critical of early season approach
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/CHC/chicago-cubs?shareId=33683339#NewsAnchor

Well I wondered if that 1st HR had maybe gotten into Ian's head.

anotheridiot · Apr 4, 2018

Parade_Rain said:
Well I wondered if that 1st HR had maybe gotten into Ian's head.

Like I keep saying, its human nature. They dont make Heyward, Rizzo, Bryant go the other way, why should the guys making minimum be any different? The only way to stop getting these shifts is give these number crunchers a reason not to shift.

I dont think the first homerun hurt Happ, it was the spring tallies that got to him. His swing is more uppercut so of course you are not going to have the bat in the zone as long.

beckdawg · Apr 4, 2018

Parade_Rain said:
Well I wondered if that 1st HR had maybe gotten into Ian's head.

Think it has more to do with what got into Schwarber's head last year. Think it's just a young guy in a big role pressing too hard.

TC in Mississippi · Apr 4, 2018

anotheridiot said:
Like I keep saying, its human nature. They dont make Heyward, Rizzo, Bryant go the other way, why should the guys making minimum be any different? The only way to stop getting these shifts is give these number crunchers a reason not to shift.

I dont think the first homerun hurt Happ, it was the spring tallies that got to him. His swing is more uppercut so of course you are not going to have the bat in the zone as long.

Say what? First of all you don't "make" anyone go the other way, it's either something they can do consistently or not. A guy like Matt Adams basically got defeated by the shift and has ended up a bench player, it happens. Other guys like Big Papi simply beat the shift by going oppo just enough. Neither Rizzo nor Bryant need to concentrate on hitting oppo because of their success as pull hitters and frankly hitting the ball hard to center. While I agree that Happ probably does need to show that he can beat the shift, that's not a team issue it should be a personal goal.

Parade_Rain · Apr 4, 2018

beckdawg said:
Think it has more to do with what got into Schwarber's head last year. Think it's just a young guy in a big role pressing too hard.

5 games in and he's already last year's Schwarber? Too small a sample size.

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