Offseason rumors/discussion thread

fatbeard

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CSF77 said:
Mixed bag more so.

He had short comings in Boston also. Great run that he bailed on. Team is still doing well.

I personally believe that he did what needed to be done. Got the front office running proper. The Rickett's got the infrastructure fixed.

Over all it is a far better situation than what they inherited. That doesn't change the fact that out side of the first pick there has been nothing to speak of as far as up welling talent. And the only talent that they had they traded. Godley etc.

So there has been far more miss than hit and that falls under evaluation of talent.
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Come the fuck on. There is an entire spectrum of activity that falls under the umbrella of talent evaluation, and you're willfully ignoring nearly all of it to focus narrowly on (mostly first round) draft results. According to your argument, Epstein & Co. didn't draft Rizzo (with the Cubs), so they get no credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Baez, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Hendricks, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Arrieta or Strop, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing their talent. They didn't draft Contreras, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent.

This argument is self-evidently absurd.
 
anotheridiot

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They saved Arrieta and Strop from the Baltimore mentality of not allowing pitchers to throw their best pitches, so they get a little credit for those 2. You might say they effectively used up Jakes best years before the arm trouble started and walked away. I am not sure Strop comes back after next year when he will want 10 million either.
 
CSF77

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fatbeard said:
Come the fuck on. There is an entire spectrum of activity that falls under the umbrella of talent evaluation, and you're willfully ignoring nearly all of it to focus narrowly on (mostly first round) draft results. According to your argument, Epstein & Co. didn't draft Rizzo (with the Cubs), so they get no credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Baez, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Hendricks, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent. They didn't draft Arrieta or Strop, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing their talent. They didn't draft Contreras, so they don't get credit for evaluating and developing his talent.

This argument is self-evidently absurd.
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Using Rizzo is a straw man. Not relavent under the Cubs tenure.

When they start producing MLB talent outside of the first pick this will be moot.

I did give them credit for drafting so good higher ceiling guys this year.

Reality is year 1 they gambled some. Almora and Underwood remainfrom that. Next draft they played it safe. Great draft order so each round they were in the cat bird. Bryant was the only guy. Think Zast was the 2nd pick and that was a underwhelming pick.

Pretty sure following year they saved on Kyle to sign Cease. Well...

Last 2 drafts we will see. For the most part back of the rotation arms in general. Nothing over powering.

By far they have done better in the international market.

Regardless all I ever said is it is a weakness and it seems they have addressed it some this draft. And from what Theo said about looking at production over talent.
 
The Bandit

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kapooncha said:
Wow Machado is a real piece of shit.
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Yep.... Starting to hope the Cubs stay away from him. He's been a douche the whole series. Earlier he threw a temper tantrum because he wanted time, after the pitcher started his motion. So he struck out looking to end the inning.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

kapooncha

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The Bandit said:
Yep.... Starting to hope the Cubs stay away from him. He's been a douche the whole series. Earlier he threw a temper tantrum because he wanted time, after the pitcher started his motion. So he struck out looking to end the inning.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
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He always has this stupid look on his face too. I like his talent but I'm not sure I can root for this guy.
 
Omeletpants

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The Bandit said:
Yep.... Starting to hope the Cubs stay away from him. He's been a douche the whole series. Earlier he threw a temper tantrum because he wanted time, after the pitcher started his motion. So he struck out looking to end the inning.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
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In the 2000s the proper phrase is to say he is spirited
 

TL1961

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Machado's agent has to be banging his head against a wall.

Potential $ 30 million a year player, in a post season setting, shows (and says) he is not willing to hustle.

Might as well make that $ 20 million per.
 

beckdawg

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TL1961 said:
Machado's agent has to be banging his head against a wall.

Potential $ 30 million a year player, in a post season setting, shows (and says) he is not willing to hustle.

Might as well make that $ 20 million per.
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I honestly don't care that much. I get that it's a bad look and all but there's maybe 5 plays a year where it *really* matters. And at times the opposite is true where a guy tries to hard to make something out of nothing like stretching a single to a double and gets himself out.
 
anotheridiot

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Part of my point, you put a guy like (Heyward) on the team, and people question their worth. Now you want to take the biggest hustle guy in baseball in Baez and say, "You are not good enough to stay at SS, we are paying Machado 30 million, even though he does not hustle and does not believe he can catch every ball hit his way".

A lesser man says to himself, "Well, I better follow Machado's lead so I can get 30 million".

As far as this dirty play, Fats Aguilar always starts with his foot on the middle of the base, and that is more danger to the runner than him. If a runner clips him, odds are the guy running at 15-18 mph is the one getting hurt.
 

beckdawg

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anotheridiot said:
A lesser man says to himself, "Well, I better follow Machado's lead so I can get 30 million".
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I think people read way to far into the mindsets of players. I would honestly be shocked if anyone who plays with Machado did that. I mean look at what players have to do to get to the majors. You don't work your butt off as a player to get to the majors and think well now time to start sandbagging. MLB players for the most part are just hard wired as hyper competitive people. That goes for most sports stars. Sure there are some guys who are just so insanely talented that they can coast but that's the exception not the rule.

Ultimately, for me it's about whether or not your produce. It's all fine and well to fill up your team with gritty guys like say an eckstien but if they don't produce results then what's the point? I don't think Machado did himself any favors just coming out and saying it like he did but to make it out as though he's someone riding the coat tails of others by slacking to me is a stretch. 3 of the last 4 seasons he's been worth 6 wins. Rizzo is like as hard of a worker as you'd want and he's NEVER put up a 6 win season.

Now if you have issue with the pretty bush league crap he did in the game last night to me that's a different issue. But I also think that's something you can discipline out of people. And while I'm sure cubs fans see this differently, is it really that different than Rizzo sliding into the leg of the pirates catcher that many felt was a dirty play this year? I would argue rizzo was trying to stop a play where as Machado was just being a dick but ultimately it's a fairly similar play.
 

kapooncha

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beckdawg said:
I think people read way to far into the mindsets of players. I would honestly be shocked if anyone who plays with Machado did that. I mean look at what players have to do to get to the majors. You don't work your butt off as a player to get to the majors and think well now time to start sandbagging. MLB players for the most part are just hard wired as hyper competitive people. That goes for most sports stars. Sure there are some guys who are just so insanely talented that they can coast but that's the exception not the rule.

Ultimately, for me it's about whether or not your produce. It's all fine and well to fill up your team with gritty guys like say an eckstien but if they don't produce results then what's the point? I don't think Machado did himself any favors just coming out and saying it like he did but to make it out as though he's someone riding the coat tails of others by slacking to me is a stretch. 3 of the last 4 seasons he's been worth 6 wins. Rizzo is like as hard of a worker as you'd want and he's NEVER put up a 6 win season.

Now if you have issue with the pretty bush league crap he did in the game last night to me that's a different issue. But I also think that's something you can discipline out of people. And while I'm sure cubs fans see this differently, is it really that different than Rizzo sliding into the leg of the pirates catcher that many felt was a dirty play this year? I would argue rizzo was trying to stop a play where as Machado was just being a dick but ultimately it's a fairly similar play.
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No it's not a similar play. And Rizzo doesn't have a reputation for those kinds of shenanigans. Machado does.
 

fatbeard

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Going to be a long, boring offseason if the Cubs preclude themselves from signing every superstar with a reputation for dogging it down to first base.
 
Omeletpants

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kapooncha said:
No it's not a similar play. And Rizzo doesn't have a reputation for those kinds of shenanigans. Machado does.
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OK, we get it that you hate him, so you can calm down now
 
anotheridiot

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kapooncha said:
Can't believe people making excuses for Machado here. Sick!
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One of my first memories of little league was playing first base and my coach telling me to cover the bag so the runner slows down, but if you are running to first base and the guy is covering the bag, kick his foot as hard as you can so he wont do it anymore.

I dont want Machado, but I definitely am waiting for Aguilar to end up hurting someone as they try to avoid his hoof.
 
CSF77

CSF77

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Stephen Watson
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"It's a dirty play by a dirty player. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can't respect someone who plays the game like that."

Christian Yelich on Manny Machado
 

fatbeard

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CSF77 said:
Stephen Watson
@WISN_Watson
"It's a dirty play by a dirty player. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can't respect someone who plays the game like that."

Christian Yelich on Manny Machado
Click to expand...

Christian Yelich plays baseball with Ryan Braun.
 

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fatbeard said:
Christian Yelich plays baseball with Ryan Braun.
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Was Yelich in Middle School when Braun was caught cheating and trying to throw some low level handler under the bus?
 
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