Perspective.

Les Grossman · Oct 23, 2018

Also, NE was the 3rd WORST defense for giving up touchdown passes... take that into consideration.

Broc · Oct 23, 2018

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
Not speaking for mick, but very sure he didn't have you in the mix there.

There are some here who are putting out the reverse hyperbole you are responding to: "I'll take 400 yards and 3 TDs all day every day especially against NE"

Not only are they missing the accuracy concerns that have nothing to do with Belichik but some have blatantly cherrypicked the stats they are proud of - ignoring and/or downplaying the awful % and INT and projecting the year out and crowing (for some reason) about how it would be a banner year for a Bears QB..

I agree with you that I see progress with # 10 and am looking forward each week to the good things he does and cringing pre-emptively at the godawful misses he makes, hoping that ratio shrinks each and every week.

Fair enough, I hear where you're coming from. Cherry picking homers are equally as annoying as hyperbolic haters. My aim here was to simply provide a little bit of perspective so that perhaps we can reign in the discussion a bit back towards reality.

Obviously we'd all love to see Mitch play perfectly every snap, complete every pass, and post 500+ yard 7 touchdown outings every week but let's try and real here. Just because he didn't play perfectly doesn't mean he was downright "bad" or "awful". It was still a "mediocre" game despite the plays he left on the field.

Just sayin, let's save those "bad" and "awful" adjectives for when he actually shits the bed like the games I highlighted from Cutler's tenure here.

Mdbearz · Oct 23, 2018

I think this is a situation where the Stats tell a different story than what we saw on the field of play.

If we only have the stats of 3TDs, 2 INTs and we score 31 points, I think most of us would assume we have a really good chance of winning that game.

BUT, watching the game you realize that we SHOULD HAVE won that game, and stamped our place in the division as we are to be taken seriously.

Personally, I take the view that Nagy's system works to get guys open, and that Mitch gets too excited (hence the OVERthrows). I think we will see him settle in a find the guys that are open more often.

I still believe in Mitch and without the couple of good games that he has shown something, my belief might be shaken.

me654 · Oct 23, 2018

wklink said:
Yes. If it counts for Cam Newton, Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham, Aaron Rodgers (when he does run) and Russell Wilson then it counts for Mitchell Trubisky.

And as for the 'Hail Mary' passes not counting. I guess all those passes from Aaron Rodgers shouldn't count either. You know, the one where Conte fell down on a fourth down play, or the Lions game where a hail mary won the game in 2015. If White had gotten into the end zone it would have counted. Just because it came up a yard short doesn't mean that it wasn't a great play at the end of the game.

Here is something to chew on. If you look at this year, just statistically, Trubisky is going to be (if everything remains exactly the same for the rest of the season), 370 completions, 562 attempts, 4250 yards, 35TDs, 16 INTs. This is Trubisky's second year in the league. Aaron Rodgers, in his first year at the helm of Green Bay was 341/536, 28TDs, 13 INTs. We won't count Trubisky's rushing stats in this since it makes BearMick's head hurt but lets just say that Trubisky has already passed Rodger's rushing yards in 2008 and will probably pass his total TDs by week 12.

Green Bay went 6-10 that year. Using the hater's philosophy Rodgers sucked and was a bust. He was in his last year of his rookie contract when he put up those numbers. Cut him.

The next year the Packers went to the playoffs and the year after that they won the Superbowl. Are the Bears going to do this? Who the fuck knows. Who in Green Bay in January of 2009 knew that Rodgers would lead the Packers to the playoffs in 2009 and the SuperBowl in 2010? Will that happen here? I don't know. But for the first time since the Cutler trade (before his first game against the Packers) I actually have an idea that it could happen.

Not to mention Erin had 3 years to learn the system behind Favre.

me654 · Oct 23, 2018

Mdbearz said:
I think this is a situation where the Stats tell a different story than what we saw on the field of play.

If we only have the stats of 3TDs, 2 INTs and we score 31 points, I think most of us would assume we have a really good chance of winning that game.

BUT, watching the game you realize that we SHOULD HAVE won that game, and stamped our place in the division as we are to be taken seriously.

Personally, I take the view that Nagy's system works to get guys open, and that Mitch gets too excited (hence the OVERthrows). I think we will see him settle in a find the guys that are open more often.

I still believe in Mitch and without the couple of good games that he has shown something, my belief might be shaken.

So your saying the young 1st year offense should have put up 50 or more points to make up for the deficiencies of our "supposed" top 5, year 4 defense and special teams -14 point errors ?

PrideisBears · Oct 23, 2018

Broc said:
You're missing my point here. My point isn't that Cutler's being bad negates Mitch's bad play but rather that people need to relax, keep some perspective, and remember what truly "bad" play actually looked like around here.

Did Mitch make some mistakes and leave plays out on the field, absolutely. Did he have a "good" game, no obviously not, I'd say more of a push game. But it certainly wasn't "bad" compared to what we're used to seeing around here. Despite his mistakes he kept the team in the game, the offense scoring points, and came up 1 yard short (which wouldn't of even been necessary if not for 2 special teams fuck ups that completely screwed the game).

I dunno, I just think people's expectations have gotten completely out of wack with envy based on what they see Mahomes doing in KC and are being overly dramatic in their assessments of this kids play. 18 games into his career and anything less than complete perfection people want to act like he's a bum. The "he could've thrown 7 TD's.. Bad game" type assessments seem a bit short sighted to me. We finally got a kid that's developing and showing promise, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater just because you've got QB envy ya know?

I have no plans on blaming Mitch. As i said in other threads he played bad but it was weirdly good enough for us to win.

I wish the team would get it together

PrideisBears · Oct 23, 2018

Les Grossman said:
Also, NE was the 3rd WORST defense for giving up touchdown passes... take that into consideration.

To also take into consideration Bill owns yound QB's

WindyCity · Oct 23, 2018

Les Grossman said:
Also, NE was the 3rd WORST defense for giving up touchdown passes... take that into consideration.

NE is currently 8th in opposing passer rating allowed.

The Bears have played the 3rd [Seattle], the 7th [Miami] as well and they are about to play the 4th [NYJ]

Midway Fields · Oct 23, 2018

Broc said:
Who are you referring to exactly? I'm pretty sure just about everyone acknowledges that Mitch's accuracy was off and he left some plays out on the field. What folks like myself take issue with is the hyperbole people use to fit their agendas/narratives. Let's be real here, if he was truly "awful" it would of been a blowout and the offense wouldn't have scored 31 points.

Which is ironic because bearmick was expecting a blowout.

sevvy · Oct 23, 2018

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
It matters when evaluating a QB on his passing ability.

You and Windy are kinda right in that you can see pocket awareness and reading receivers covered with no open zones to throw, and if the all-22 bears that out, that is certainly a conversation.

But the context here is separating his high level of scrambling ability from his passing numbers and his play as a PASSER. His inefficiency was alarming to some, and others find comfort in the good plays he made. Progress is still being tracked here, and the running numbers simply do not translate into tracking his progress as a passer generally speaking.

The issue I have, is that his passing numbers and play as a PASSER can be evaluated during those run plays, too. If we look at the all-22 on those plays, was running in those situations the right thing to do? I don't have that answer. I'd have to go look at the tape.

The kid has explosive scrambling ability. I'll take a 30 yard run of his over a 7 yard pass.

Outlaw Josey Cutler · Oct 24, 2018

sevvy said:
The issue I have, is that his passing numbers and play as a PASSER can be evaluated during those run plays, too. If we look at the all-22 on those plays, was running in those situations the right thing to do? I don't have that answer. I'd have to go look at the tape.

The kid has explosive scrambling ability. I'll take a 30 yard run of his over a 7 yard pass.

I literally already acknowledged that the all-22 can reveal if his running is happening based on decent reading of the defense.

And of course, you would take a 30-yard run over a 7-yard pass. So would I. But you literally cannot evaluate him as a PASSER when he runs because he isn't passing.

It's not rocket science. You can evaluate his ability to read a D sure or his athleticism, absolutely. But not as a passer.

WindyCity · Oct 24, 2018

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
I literally already acknowledged that the all-22 can reveal if his running is happening based on decent reading of the defense.

And of course, you would take a 30-yard run over a 7-yard pass. So would I. But you literally cannot evaluate him as a PASSER when he runs because he isn't passing.

It's not rocket science. You can evaluate his ability to read a D sure or his athleticism, absolutely. But not as a passer.

There is a read involved in running. If he reads that everyone's back is to him and he has a 10 yard run sitting right in front of him, than he is making a good read on that play.

I agree that it is difficult to assess him as a passer.

One of the Patriots beat guys had a screen shot of an open Gabriel that Trubisky does not throw the ball to, because he runs. It was 3rd and 2 and he saw a guaranteed 1st down on the ground, so I do not begrudge him for taking the shorter gain, but the guaranteed 1st down.

iffybiz · Oct 24, 2018

What’s interesting is that the bar clearly has been raised where Mitch is concerned.
He’s had one really complete game, a few excellent halves and several great quarters.
Sunday was a poor game, his 2-4 bad passes a game turned into a theme the entire game.
If you just wanted to look at the bad there is plenty there to complain about.
However, if you think he might have a chance to be pretty good, there is plenty there to see as well.
Here’s a few on the “plus” side.
The Bears are 6th in points per game, please stand up and take a bow if you saw that coming.
Mitch is 10th in QBR, that’s despite the Sunday game.
Trubisky and Brady’s stat line thru 6 are so similar it’s scary, just being able to say that is encouraging.
I know some will say “stats mean nothing” or “the QB ratings suck” but after years of bad QB with terrible stats and ratings it’s nice to debate that on the other side.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

WindyCity · Oct 24, 2018

If Mitch can get a little more efficient the Bears are going to hang some big numbers on teams pretty consistently.

This is an offense that is scoring 28 points while running backwards, imagine if they can get themselves running forward.

Outlaw Josey Cutler · Oct 24, 2018

WindyCity said:
There is a read involved in running. If he reads that everyone's back is to him and he has a 10 yard run sitting right in front of him, than he is making a good read on that play.

I agree that it is difficult to assess him as a passer.

One of the Patriots beat guys had a screen shot of an open Gabriel that Trubisky does not throw the ball to, because he runs. It was 3rd and 2 and he saw a guaranteed 1st down on the ground, so I do not begrudge him for taking the shorter gain, but the guaranteed 1st down.

I wouldn't begrudge him that either. That's beside the point.

It is impossible to assess him as a passer when he runs simply because he is not passing.

Your example leads directly to it: he has Gabriel open on 3rd and 2 and also a running lane open. He chooses run. Without taking away a thing from him, I can still say it is impossible to assess his throw to 18 on that play because he did not throw to him; he ran.

Why would he get credit as a passer for choosing a viable running option over another viable passing option? He shouldn't get either credit nor blame. That was just what it was.

The throws he made were less than the throws he failed to make. As far as reading goes, I have no idea and I am not sure anyone outside Halas Hall CAN know for sure. I wish I had all-22 just for the fun of it.

I'm with mick though in the camp of subtracting running yards solely in terms of an evaluation tool of his development as a passer for the reasons already given.

Outlaw Josey Cutler · Oct 24, 2018

WindyCity said:
There is a read involved in running. If he reads that everyone's back is to him and he has a 10 yard run sitting right in front of him, than he is making a good read on that play.

I agree that it is difficult to assess him as a passer.

One of the Patriots beat guys had a screen shot of an open Gabriel that Trubisky does not throw the ball to, because he runs. It was 3rd and 2 and he saw a guaranteed 1st down on the ground, so I do not begrudge him for taking the shorter gain, but the guaranteed 1st down.

PS - Do you have All-22?

WindyCity · Oct 24, 2018

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
PS - Do you have All-22?

Cannot this year.

DAZN bought the rites to the NFL in Canada and we can no longer access it. I have been doing my best from the replay copy.

pseudonym · Oct 24, 2018

WindyCity said:
If Mitch can get a little more efficient the Bears are going to hang some big numbers on teams pretty consistently.

This is an offense that is scoring 28 points while running backwards, imagine if they can get themselves running forward.

If he can calm down, and have a "soft touch" on the open players, the easy passes in the flats, the screens, the shorter plays, dude will do well. The game seems to be slowing down for him, but he's not there yet. Hopefully by the end of the year. Wild card? Maybe. Hell, this division is still up for grabs.

Bear Pride · Oct 24, 2018

bearmick said:
Are we this desperate for stats now that we're including rushing yards and hail marys?

Forget the stats, look at the game and watch the inaccuracy.

Passing CP/ATT YDS TD INT FPTS

M. Trubisky 26/50 333 2 2 35

T. Brady 25/36 277 3 1 27

Bear Pride · Oct 24, 2018

sevvy said:
That face when someone doesn't think 81 yards rushing and a rushing TD matters...

And people gave me a hard time when I said Mick has an agenda against Mitch.....

Perspective.

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